Quiz - Are you Chalcedon compliant?

[Cyprian]

66 bishops gathered at a local Council of Carthage in 252 under the presidency of my namesake, Holy Hieromartyr Cyprian, where they decreed:

"Not to forbid (the baptism) of an infant who, scarcely born, has sinned in nothing apart from that which proceeds from the flesh of Adam. He has received the contagion of the ancient death through his very birth, and he comes, therefore, the more easily to the reception of the remission of sins in that it is not his own but the sins of another that are remitted."

This declaration is reiterated in Epistle LVIII by St. Cyprian to Fidus:

"But again, if even to the greatest sinners, and to those who had sinned much against God, when they subsequently believed, remission of sins is granted--and nobody is hindered from baptism and from grace--how much rather ought we to shrink from hindering an infant, who, being lately born, has not sinned, except in that, being born after the flesh according to Adam, he has contracted the contagion of the ancient death at its earliest birth, who approaches the more easily on this very account to the reception of the forgiveness of sins--that to him are remitted, not his own sins, but the sins of another. "

Furthermore, 217 bishops gathered at the Council of Carthage in 419 and decreed in Canon 110 of what is dubbed the "African Code":

Canon CX.
[Greek CXII]

That infants are baptized for the remission of sins.

Likewise it seemed good that whosoever denies that infants newly from their mother's wombs should be baptized, or says that baptism is for remission of sins, but that they derive from Adam no original sin, which needs to be removed by the laver of regeneration, from whence the conclusion follows, that in them the form of baptism for the remission of sins, is to be understood as false and not true, let him be anathema.

For no otherwise can be understood what the Apostle says, "By one man sin is come into the world, and death through sin, and so death passed upon all men in that all have "sinned," than the Catholic Church everywhere diffused has always understood it. For on account of this rule of faith (regulam fidei) even infants, who could have committed as yet no sin themselves, therefore are truly baptized for the remission of sins, in order that what in them is the result of generation may be cleansed by regeneration.

The African code was ratified by the Quinisext Ecumenical Council (i.e. the Council of Trullo in 692), attended by more than 200 bishops, as well as the Holy Sixth and Seventh Oecumenical Councils.

So these canons bear Ecumenical authority and cannot simply be rejected. They are not optional.

The Orthodox must accept that infants are baptized for the remission of sins, as is confessed in the Holy Symbol of Faith just prior to their entering the laver:

"I confess one baptism for the remission of sins"

To suggest that infants are baptized for a different reason than adults is to confess not one baptism -- "One Lord, one faith, one baptism" (Eph 4.5) -- but in fact to confess two baptisms.

Cyprian

[Cyprian]

I should also like to add the words of the holy apostle Peter, chief of the Apostles, as recorded in the Acts of the Apostles:

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (Acts 2:37-39)

As St. Peter clearly states, baptism is for the remission of sins, and this promise is "unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off"

So children are not excluded from the promise of baptism, which is for the remission of sins, as we confess in the Holy Creed.

Furthermore, we read in the book of Job:

For who shall be pure from uncleanness? not even one; if even his life should be but one day upon the earth (Job 14.4-5. LXX)

Cyprian

[joasia]

Theophan,

Can you point out some specifics? Listing all these points just confuses the issues because we have to analyse what the holy fathers meant. This is a very sensitive subject and I certainly don't want to say anything against the Orthodox teachings. If I say something that is inaccurate, please point them out AND give the correct meaning, then I will understand what it is that I said that was inaccurate.

From what I've read and perhaps I misunderstood the explanation, the following points can be discussed:

1) Adam and Eve are the cause of the original sin

2) The original act stays with the originators but the consequence, fallen nature of man and mortality, is what we all partake in.

3) Baptism is the only way to gain the fullness of the Holy Spirit(Grace) within us as before IT was always present, but mankind could not be full partakers of IT. Also, where Adam and Eve lost the Holy Kingdom due to their transgression, baptism opens the doors for us again(after Christ's Ressurection).

4) Sin is the consequence of the corruption of our true nature(the original nature - union with God and immortality of body), whereas Adam and Eve committed the original sin, we also suffer sin because bodies have become corrupt - and are seperated from God(as compared to the way Adam and Eve were with God). Therefore, newborns are already touched with the sin of corruption of the body.

"how much rather ought we to shrink from hindering an infant, who, being lately born, has not sinned, except in that, being born after the flesh according to Adam, he has contracted the contagion of the ancient death at its earliest birth, who approaches the more easily on this very account to the reception of the forgiveness of sins--that to him are remitted, not his own sins, but the sins of another."

(My example of the foreign substance which effects the next generations comes along the same line. I could have used a better term like hereditary disease).

5) The Greek expressions are much more specific. They distinguish between original sin of Adam(but are careful not to mean the same term that St. Augustine expressed and the ancestral sin which is what we all inherited( corruption of the flesh and seperation from God).

In Christ, Joanna

[Cyprian]

Allow me also to quote a couple of decrees from the Synod of Jerusalem in 1672, presided over by the Holy Patriarch Dositheus:

Decree 6

We believe the first man created by God to have fallen in Paradise, when, disregarding the Divine commandment, he yielded to the deceitful counsel of the serpent. And as a result hereditary sin flowed to his posterity; so that everyone who is born after the flesh bears this burden, and experiences the fruits of it in this present world...

Decree 16

We believe Holy Baptism, which was instituted by the Lord, and is conferred in the name of the Holy Trinity, to be of the highest necessity. For without it none is able to be saved, as the Lord says, “Whoever is not born of water and of the Spirit, shall in no way enter into the Kingdom of the Heavens.” {John 3:5} And, therefore, baptism is necessary even for infants, since they also are subject to original sin, and without Baptism are not able to obtain its remission. Which the Lord showed when he said, not of some only, but simply and absolutely, “Whoever is not born [again],” which is the same as saying, “All that after the coming of Christ the Savior would enter into the Kingdom of the Heavens must be regenerated.” And since infants are men, and as such need salvation, needing salvation they need also Baptism. And those that are not regenerated, since they have not received the remission of hereditary sin, are, of necessity, subject to eternal punishment, and consequently cannot without Baptism be saved. So that even infants should, of necessity, be baptized. Moreover, infants are saved, as is said in Matthew; {Matthew 19:12} but he that is not baptized is not saved. And consequently even infants must of necessity be baptized. And in the Acts {Acts 8:12; 16:33} it is said that the whole houses were baptized, and consequently the infants. To this the ancient Fathers also witness explicitly, and among them Dionysius in his Treatise concerning the Ecclesiastical Hierarchy; and Justin in his fifty-sixth Question, who says expressly, “And they are guaranteed the benefits of Baptism by the faith of those that bring them to Baptism.” And Augustine says that it is an Apostolic tradition, that children are saved through Baptism; and in another place, “The Church gives to babes the feet of others, that they may come; and the hearts of others, that they may believe; and the tongues of others, that they may promise;” and in another place, “Our mother, the Church, furnishes them with a particular heart.”

Now the matter of Baptism is pure water, and no other liquid. And it is performed by the Priest only, or in a case of unavoidable necessity, by another man, provided he is Orthodox, and has the proper intention to Divine Baptism. And the effects of Baptism are, to speak concisely, firstly, the remission of the hereditary transgression, and of any sins of any kind that the baptized may have committed. Secondly, it delivers him from the eternal punishment, to which he was liable, as well for original sin and for mortal sins he may have individually committed. Thirdly, it gives to the person immortality; for in justifying them from past sins, it makes them temples of God.

And it cannot be said that there is any sin which may have been previously committed that remains, though not imputed, that is not washed away through Baptism, For that were indeed the height of impiety, and a denial, rather than a confession of piety. Indeed, truly, all sin existing, or committed before Baptism, is blotted out, and is to be regarded as never existing or committed. For the forms of Baptism, and on either hand all the words that precede and that perfect Baptism, do indicate a perfect cleansing. And the same thing even the very names of Baptism do signify. For if Baptism is by the Spirit and by fire, {Matthew 3:11} it is obvious that it is in all a perfect cleansing; for the Spirit cleanses perfectly. If it is light, {Hebrews 6:4} it dispels the darkness. If it is regeneration, {Titus 3:5} old things are passed away. And what are these except sins? If the baptized puts off the old man, {Colossians 3:9} then sin also. If he puts on Christ, {Galatians 3:27} then in effect he becomes free from sin through Baptism. For God is far from sinners. This Paul also teaches more plainly, saying: “As through one [man] we, being many, were made sinners, so through one [are we made] righteous.” {Romans 5:19} And if righteous, then free from sin. For it is not possible for life and death to be in the same [person]. If Christ truly died, then remission of sin through the Spirit is true also. Hence it is evident that all who are baptized and fall asleep while babes are undoubtedly saved, being predestinated through the death of Christ. Forasmuch as they are without any sin; — without that common [to all], because delivered from it by the Divine laver, and without any of their own, because as babes they are incapable of committing sin; — and consequently are saved. Moreover, Baptism imparts an indelible character, as does also the Priesthood. For as it is impossible for any one to receive twice the same order of the Priesthood, so it is impossible for any once rightly baptized, to be again baptized, although he should fall even into myriads of sins, or even into actual apostasy from the Faith. For when he is willing to return unto the Lord, he receives again through the Mystery of Penance the adoption of a son, which he had lost.

[Cyprian]

St. Symeon the New Theologian, Homily 37:

Therefore, if anyone, having experienced beforehand such disgrace and insignificance, shall then become proud, is he not senseless and blind? That saying that calls no one sinless except God, even though he has lived only one day on earth, does not refer to those who sin personally, because how can a one-day-old child sin? But in this is expressed that mystery of our Faith, that human nature is sinful from its very conception. God did not create man sinful, but pure and holy. But since the first-created Adam lost this garment of sanctity, not from any other sin but from pride alone, and became corruptible and mortal, all people also who come from the seed of Adam are participants of the ancestral sin from their very conception and birth. He who has been born in this way, even though he has not yet performed any sin, is already sinful through this ancestral sin.

[GOCTheophan]

I put forward a view by Hesiod and the connection between the Roman church and original sin.

Does THAT scare YOU?

You are aware that everything you cite postdates Hesiod by centuries I hope.

What I cite is what the Orthodox Church teaches. Are you conciously going aganist her teachings?

And no it doesnt.

There is much Truth both in Hesiod and the Church of Rome, however distorted and piosoned by error it may be.

Theophan.

[joasia]

Theophan,

I believe in baptism for our salvation. What meaning did you understand in my post? Not just about baptism but about the original sin.

In Christ,

Joanna