The Saint Euphrosynos Cafe

Liudmilla wrote:

My dearest Brother in Christ, Sean:

I was but providing a translation for Helen's comment, with which I agree. There is/was no Argumentum ad hominem, just a translation.

Milla, who is still :ohvey:

Liudmilla,

I was responding to Helen's insult, and I think you know that. Excuse me for clicking the quote feature on your entry and not hers, but since you were good enough to translate it for me, I responded.

This is really getting petty. There isn't a single World Orthodox on this forum who has adequately responded to any of the historical facts surrounding the schismatic formation of their churches, or the countless teachings of the Church which their bishops violate.

Helen, if anyone has responded with haughtiness and arrogance it has been you. It has been my experience with Russians that they excel at this.

I can't believe that this thread has snowballed so completely off topic, or has created the sensation that it has. I posted an article with no commentary, a heterodox accused me of pride, I responded with the teachings of the Church, and all the ecumenists on this site jumped in to defend the heterodox person!

Go encounter some like-minds on Orthodox Circle. The ecumenist administrator there would love you.

I'm sorry Sean, having re-read the first two or three or four entries, I must agree with those who have censored you. You have not reacted well to certain facts that were brought to your attention right from the beginning and have been on the attack in a totally unOrthodox manner ever since. You were wrong and you are not taking it well.

You have now attacked those who have chosen to stand for the Orthodox virtues of truth, honest and humility. But in a typical hard headed manner you chosen not to accept the gentle reproaches of your Orthodox brethren, rather you are now attacking them calling them ecumenists, world orthodox and everything else.

It would have been better to accept the reproach in a spirit of Christian humility as taught by the Church and to go on to the next topic.

Katya

Dear Sean.

If the content you are refering to is: “These truths are dismissed with pietistic fluff by the enemies of the Church, who don't even address these issues, as they rip the mask off their lies”, then yes I do not know much about these issues at all and I have never pretended that I do. My comments re: your comments, were based purely on the manner you used to communicate your thoughts to Ebor. I do believe though, that I and others have intelligence enough to be able to discern the intent of communication and whether it is being used in a constructive or destructive way.

If, in concern for the person’s soul, you thought is was necessary to ‘tell the truth’, then without doubt you would be much more successful by lovingly, condescendingly and respectfully bringing your fellow brother (based on the premise that all are made in the image of God) to true knowledge. But it seems that the other person was not on your mind, but rather that the truth was used to defend your position i.e., you took his comment’s as a personal attack and not an opportunity for healthy, open and respectful discussion.

My comment "Гордыня! Слепая гордыня " was merely an expression of the frustration I felt about your inability/unwillingness to take others' observations on board for consideration (at the very least) and the hope that it might be thought provoking. It was not meant to be an argument, since I suppose that any arguments I may put forward will be disregarded as “pietistic fluff” and may only lead to further use of name-calling and belittling on your behalf.

It appears to me that Sean has simply spoken the truth about the tragic history of the Church. We live in a day and age when speaking the truth about the Church is, apparently quite offensive to many people, and may even be misconstrued as arrogant and insensitive. Of course, it is not for us, as sinners, to judge those inside or outside of the faith, but should we would not confess the true faith, when necessary? The entire thread began with the subject of an Episcopalian priestess participating in the worship services of the Moslems. Do any among us believe Mohammed's claim that he, himself, was the "Paraklete," the Comforter (Holy Spirit) who would lead us in the way of all truth? Of course not. But we should also focus on the "beam that is in our own eye" rather than the "mote" that is in our brother's." Perhaps we should, therefore, not proffer judgments on the Church of England unless an Episcopalian asks us for our honest opinions on the subject.

Dear Helen,

Anglicanism is an evil religion that condones surgical pre-natal infantcide and sodomny. It was founded on fornication, greed, theft and political compromise. I could go on. From the Ulster plantation to the fire bombing of Dresden Anglicanism (literally Englishism) has given moral support to the vampires of the "city" and Westiminister. It is riddled with satanic Freemasonary.

Lets drop the attacks on Sean for what he said is mild in comparison with what some of the Holy Fathers have said and written.

Why is someone like Ebor even allowed on this forum?

Theophan.

Any True Orthodox Church which doesn't believe that heretics have sacraments effectual for salvation (this is Ecumenism) share the same confession of the Orthodox Faith as the Holy Orthodox Church in North America. We differ only in pinpointing an exact date in which the New Calendarists lost grace.

Dear Sean,

It seems that you are only focusing on one aspect of an Orthodox confession. There is more required.

I believe that if you examine HOCNA's confession more carefully, you will find that they deviate from the Orthodox confession of Holy Church in other respects, aside from the question of whether or not heretics retain salvific grace.

I do not agree that HOCNA shares the same confession as the True Orthodox Churches.

Cyprian