Iconophili's Great Big Thread of Conspiracies!

[AndyHolland]

Dear CGW,

If you want to be saved go to the Ark (Church) before the flood comes and find Jesus Christ at the helm and the Holy Spirit filling the sails. If We the People want to be saved, We the People need to find the Ark and recognize Jesus Christ is Lord.

andy holland
sinner

"Ark" = "Church" = EO?

If so then the US must become EO?

Ebor

Holy Orthodoxy is the fullness of truth. If you wish to be saved, you need to find Jesus Christ the Savior. With faith like a mustard seed, one then makes Jesus the center of all things. So every breath, every thought, every thing one does one does in rememberance and love of the Lord and of our neighbor.

If we want to live, we need to learn to love others and in loving God and one another, we find true life. The Orthodox Church is the fullness of that life as the body of Christ.

When Jesus came and proclaimed the Gospel, he did not hide who he is. The pharisees rejected Him. The Church cannot hide herself as anything less than the body of Christ. She is on a lampstand for all to see. If you take offense at Zion, that is your problem.

The Orthodox Church has retained the fullness of truth. Other churches have arisen where someone other than Jesus is made to be center of attention or the church existed for their benefit. These churches are the foolish virgins - virgins because they seek the Lord, foolish because they do not retain the fullness of the truth and hence seek half-heartedly. So they go trade in the city - homosexual bishops, pan-religious services, what's happening now morality and so on.

I am sorry if that offends you, it is simply the way things are.

andy holland
sinner

[TomS]

Republican Congressman Ron Paul ..."the US was slipping perilously close to a dictatorship."

Absurd.

Why how could YOU SAY it's absurd

Because if you read the history, you would know that the Govt and the Presidency has much LESS power than it did just 30 years ago.

[AndyHolland]

People went and formed a nation together united, apart from God.

And how was the US formed without God, in your opinion?

Do you really wish to know my opinion, or are you more interested in canon fodder for proving how right you are and how worthless I am?

For lack of better term "nationalism"

"Nationalism"? Would you please define what that word means to you?

...as represented by Nimrod,

Represented to you in your mind. Since you "speak for yourself" I see no reason to accept your interpretation without some kind of support from some other reliable source.

Read these things again and again with the Fathers.

Which "Fathers"? What works? Would you please give citations to back up claims that you are making?

Also, if you have ever been with people who are dieing, they often report seeing "the hunter",

Citations and supporting information, please?

Separation of Church and State is certainly not supported by Holy Scripture and is a post schism Western heresy - IMHO of course.

As you say, in your "humble" opinion. Without a separation of Church and State in the US, why would there be any EO allowed to practice or be established in this country for you to convert to (you said that you converted, did you not?)

Do you really seek to learn something, or are you more interested in insulting?

.....and destroying the largest Church in Southeast Asia two days later along with part of a city.

According to information I have looked up the "largest Church (RC) in "Southeast Asia" is the Se Cathedral in Goa, India.
http://www.surfindia.com/travel/goa/se-cathederal.html

Japan is in East Asia and was the site in Nagasaki of the Urakami Cathedral that was destroyed in 1945 and has been rebuilt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urakami_Cathedral

Making mistakes and errors that can be easily found to be such does not make a good support for your ideas. Details and facts do matter.

Have you made any study of the Pacific Theater of World War II? What books have you read on this topic, please? Japanese history is one of my interests.

Wow - thanks for the fact checking. I suggest you read Leslie R. Groves, "Now it can be Told."

Now what/who is more important from a Kingdom of Heaven standpoint, a temple made by human hands or 100,000 temples made by God?

For example, I don't like the fact that in 1776 the flag of a snake was used with the term "don't tread on me." They knew perfectly well what snake that referred to - the one in the garden who rebelled, and they knew perfectly well who they were rebelling against!

No, the snake that referred to was the North American Rattlesnake. Your opinion on what they meant is countered by what they actually wrote about it.

Some people see things symbolically, others see nothing in symbols. As you and our American forefathers were from an Iconoclast tradition, perhaps it is expecting too much to ask to compare things spiritual to spiritual.

However, the revolutionaries weren't exactly passive martyrs tar and feathering the opposition!

Nor were those opposed to the American Revolution "passive martyrs". Would you have preferred that the Revolution had not taken place?

Ebor

Canada seems to have come out fine without allot of needless bloodshed. What does violence prove and what bitter fruit has it wrought?

Good things proceed from good seed. Had America been patient, better things would have come than years of war, agony, bloodshed, and murder.

Revolutions always end badly - look at history and the Bible. Even revolutions against wicked rulers have exacted a price. When will "We the People" pay in full for the blood of 40,000,000 Holy Innocents?

"Let God arise and Judge the Earth, for to Him belong the nations!"

andy holland
sinner

[ICONOPHILI]

Republican Congressman Ron Paul ..."the US was slipping perilously close to a dictatorship."

Absurd.

Why how could YOU SAY it's absurd

Because if you read the history, you would know that the Govt and the Presidency has much LESS power than it did just 30 years ago.

Are you living on Planet Earth, have you heard of The Paitriot Bill, Homeland Security, have you seen that there such a thing as "Seperation Of Powers" in the Constitution, but the Gov breaks that 100%?? Hello what Planet are you on?????????

[TomS]

Hello what Planet are you on?????????

One that is based in reality and not hype.

[ICONOPHILI]

Hello what Planet are you on?????????

One that is based in reality and not hype.

Oh Really!? http://www.rense.com/general69/TREASD.HTM

[CGW]

In the current line of discussion I feel compelled more to teach than to learn, if only because of the very many problems I am finding with what and how you teach.

For instance, you direct us to read Now it can be Told by Leslie R. Groves. I see from Amazon that this book is 464 pages long. Now, it might be that this book is worth reading, though I've read so much about the Manhattan Project over the years that I don't know how much new I would learn by reading it. More to the point, though, is that presumably some point one of us has made should be refuted somewhere in its many pages. OK then: where? Can you quote a passage? Can you give a page number (or at least a chapter) where the passage can be found? In 464 pages it is pretty likely that, in reading, I would not notice the point which you believe the text to be making.

Those who are willing to argue in public for their opinions must be prepared to have their positions and sources questioned. It is not a question of being "insulting", but merely the consequence of public discussion. I have discussed religion on the internet for twenty years, and the doubts and corrections we have expressed do not begin to compare with some of the treatment to which I have been subjected over the years. My statements have been called a lot worse names than "worthless"-- a word, I would note, which is yours, not ours.

It is reasonable, in one sense, to convict the US government of being secular in intent and origin. I don't think it is accurate to accuse the masons of having some key role in its origin, and I think that a calmer examination would show that Judaeo-Christian precepts are expressed in its ideals far more than either its religious detractors or its dogmatically secularist supporters might be willing to agree.

On the theory that the country's moral/religious problems could be resolved by its conversion to Orthodoxy, I must withdraw from the discussion. Such a conversion seems to me unlikely; it seems to me that the heart of American Christianity is to be found in the direction of Methodist, evangelical, and fundamentalist Protestantism. But that isn't really the point. What I do see is that none of you here is really in a position to effect much of this conversion. The USA of today is secularized (though not as much as people might like to claim) and not Orthodox and in the meantime, we must all work out our salvation here, and not in a USA tranformed into a new Jerusalem (which, btw, is a classic image of American Protestantism). None of this-- the conversion or the present life-- justify raising these largely false alarms about the country.