Discussion and criticism of GOC-K & SiR Union

[Dcn.Ephrem]

Given that the Cyprianites had to accept that the ecumenists are outside the Church, I'm not sure how one can argue that they have not renounced their former position that the ecumenists were still in the Church. And as I said, it was already allowed to have different opinions on Grace in the GOC well before this union. Finally, the idea that Cyprianism was an outright heresy is not at all universally held, and certainly never within the GOC.

A public renunciation would have to say, "This is what Cyprianism is, we have been guilty of preaching it, and now we reject it as a heresy that is unacceptable for an Orthodox Christian. And we would now like to be received in repentance into the Orthodox Church." The signed document certainly doesn't say this.

You said that Cyprianism is not universally held as a heresy in the GOC. This is precisely the problem that we are having with this unia.

[jgress]

Fair enough, but then this was a problem long before. When I joined the GOC I didn't do so under the impression that I had to believe Cyprianism was a full-blown heresy, so this seems to be mainly a problem for you and your jurisdiction.

I know the GOC has had some dialogue with ROAC in the past. Was this an issue raised at the time?

[Dcn.Ephrem]

I do not know the details of ROAC-GOC talks.

[Jean-Serge]

Well it's certainly odd for the Romanians to be upset, since they were already in communion with the SiR back when they were fully Cyprianite in their ecclesiology, i.e. when they taught that the ecumenists were still in the Church. Now the SiR dissolved itself and their bishops accepted the GOC position that the ecumenists are outside the Church, so why are the Romanians suddenly making a fuss?

It seems some Romanians never had a Cyprianist position (as an example that baptized anyone coming from new calendar) and were expecting that this union would clearly eradicate cyprianism, with no ambiguity. The circumstances

In addition to Jean-Serge's list of grievance, I would add the following:

• Absence of a direct and public renunciation of Cyprianism

.

When Chrysostomos of Etna says they have renounced nothing, it is quite the opposite of a public renunciation. The flock of former SiR will believe that they can believe as they used to (since nobody or almnost nobody read the common agreement, and nobody reads long texts) the flock of GOC will believe that the former cyprianists repented, because it is what is being taold... So, the more ambiguous, the best, and for this, it is better not to answer the questions like they did for the Kinotita, not publish a clarification. You can notice on this subject that everybody is silent, the synods, collectively, the bishops individually... maybe because they think that silence will make everybody forget the issues.

There was no dialog GOC - ROAC, only informal meetings to take tea and talk.

[Jean-Serge]

Fair enough, but then this was a problem long before. When I joined the GOC I didn't do so under the impression that I had to believe Cyprianism was a full-blown heresy, so this seems to be mainly a problem for you and your jurisdiction.

I know the GOC has had some dialogue with ROAC in the past. Was this an issue raised at the time?

What counts is what is written and the condemnation of Cyprianism in 1986 (see my blog); the encyclicals that reaffirm that new calendar is without Grace. Some priests receive very bad without telling everything but at the end, the official condemnation and declarations bind everyone.

[Andrei C.]

Actually the romanian delegates asked for a conclusive condemnation of ailing-members theory, which was made by Bp Flavian in the first Sunday of the Great Lent [see here]. Also, about 18 months back the Romanian Synod announced Cyprianites that they stop communion until the latters clarify their ecclesiological position - since then there have not been any visits or concelebrations between the two synods. One of the consequences of this step was the dialog between Cyprianites and the GOC-K.
Hopefully this clarifies some of your thoughts here.

[Maria]

Actually the romanian delegates asked for a conclusive condemnation of ailing-members theory, which was made by Bp Flavian in the first Sunday of the Great Lent [see here]. Also, about 18 months back the Romanian Synod announced Cyprianites that they stop communion until the latters clarify their ecclesiological position - since then there have not been any visits or concelebrations between the two synods. One of the consequences of this step was the dialog between Cyprianites and the GOC-K.
Hopefully this clarifies some of your thoughts here.

I went to the Romanian website, and saw the service for the Sunday of Orthodoxy, March 9, 2014 (civil date). Looking through these anathemas in Romanian, I noticed that they also condemn the modern and ecumenistic heresies, and that they differ from the ones normally used at the Vespers for the Sunday of Orthodoxy. I have highlighted some of these differences in red font. The Romanian is very close to English (as we have a 50% Latin/French overlay).

• Veșnică să le fie pomenirea!

  Așa cum au văzut proorocii, cum au propovăduit Apostolii, cum a primit Biserica, cum au dogmatisit învățătorii, cum înțelege împreună cu ei lumea locuită "oikumene", cum luminează harul, cum lămurește adevărul, cum a fost erezia izgonită, cum ne întărește înțelepciunea să proclamăm, cum a adeverit Hristos, tot așa gândim și noi, vorbim, propovăduim, Îl slăvim pe Hristos ca pe adevăratul Dumnezeu, și pe sfinții Săi, în cuvinte, în scrieri, în gânduri, în jertfe, în biserici, în icoane, slujind și preaînălțându−L pe Unul Dumnezeu și Domn, și cinstindu−i pe sfinți din pricina Domnului lor ca pe cei ce sunt aproape de El și îi slujesc, și le dăm cinstirea cuvenită.

  Aceste binecuvântări au ajuns până la noi, ca de la părinți la fiii ce sunt râvnitori pentru credința lor, iar blestemele îi covârșesc pe ucigașii de părinți, care disprețuiesc poruncile Stăpânului. De aceea, noi, în comuniunea evlaviei, le aruncăm obștește blestemul pe care și l−au atras asupra lor.

  1. Celor care tăgăduiesc ființarea lui Dumnezeu și spun că această lume de la sine s−a făcut și toate cele dintr−însa fără Pronia lui Dumnezeu și din întâmplare se fac: cum ar fi evoluționismul, precum că omul se trage din maimuță sau alte ideologii străine celei creaționiste: Anatema.

  Poporul: Anatema!

  1. Celor ce nebunește grăiesc că nu a trebuit pentru mântuirea noastră și spre curățirea păcatelor noastre să vină în lume Fiul lui Dumnezeu în trup și să primească patimă de bunăvoie, moarte și înviere: Anatema!

  Poporul: Anatema!

  1. Celor care nu cred și nu mărturisesc că într−un singur ipostas al persoanei Mântuitorului Iisus Hristos sunt două firi, omenească și dumnezeiască, neamestecate, neschimbate, neîmpărțite și nedespărțite precum monofizismul: Anatema!

  Poporul: Anatema!

  1. Celor care îndrăznesc să grăiască că Preacurata Fecioara Maria Născătoarea de Dumnezeu nu a fost înainte de naștere, la naștere și după naștere Fecioară: Anatema!

  Poporul: Anatema!

  1. Celor care nu cred că Duhul Sfânt i−a înțelepțit pe prooroci și apostoli și printr−înșii ne−a vestit nouă calea adevărată spre pocăință și a întărit aceasta cu minuni, și Carele acum în inimile dreptcredincioșilor creștini viețuiește și îi povățuiește la orice adevăr: Anatema!

  Poporul: Anatema!

  1. Celor care nu primesc harul izbăvirii propovăduit în Sfânta Evanghelie ca singurul mijloc de curățire, luminare și desăvârșire înaintea lui Dumnezeu: Anatema!

  Poporul: Anatema!

  1. Celor care cred în REÂNCARNARE și tăgăduiesc nemurirea sufletului, sfârșitul veacului, judecata ce va să fie și răsplata veșnică pentru faptele bune în ceruri, iar pentru păcate osândire: Anatema!

  Poporul: Anatema!

  1. Celor care cutează a strecura în Simbolul Credinței o a doua purcedere, și din Fiul, a dumnezeirii Duhului Sfânt, arătând prin aceasta două cauze în unitatea ființială a Treimii, precum erezia Filioque: Anatema!

  Poporul: Anatema!

  1. Celor ce stăruie în erezia iconoclastă și hulesc sfintele icoane pe care Sfânta Biserică le primește spre amintirea lucrărilor lui Dumnezeu și a bineplăcuților Lui, spre trezirea evlaviei celor ce le privesc pe ele și a dorinței de a urma sfinților,și celor care le numesc pe acestea idoli: Anatema!

  Poporul: Anatema!

  1. Celor care tăgăduiesc vreuna din cele șapte Sfinte Taine ale bisericii lui Hristos: botezul, mirungerea, pocăința, Sfânta Împărtăşanie, preoția (hirotonia), cununia și Sfântul Maslu: Anatema!

  Poporul: Anatema!

  1. Celor care tăgăduiesc cele șapte sfinte soboare ecumenice și sfintele soboare locale ale sfinților părinți și predaniile lor care sunt într−un duh glăsuitoare cu Dumnezeiasca descoperire, și de sfânta Biserică cea una dreptslăvitoare și sobornicească cu binecuvântare păstrate: Anatema!

  Poporul: Anatema!

  1. Celor care predică sau contribuie direct sau indirect la promovarea pan−ereziei Ecumenismului, adică la crearea unei baze care să cuprindă toate dogmele și religiile, în care adevărul relevat va fi complet relativizat și pus la același nivel cu orice înșelăciune și concepție omenească și drăcească și care cultivă așa−numitele teorii: a mădularelor bolnave, a celor două biserici surori, a celor doi plămâni ai bisericii (Catolicismul și Ortodoxia), precum si teoria ramurilor în conformitate cu care diferitele confensiuni ar fi ramuri ale aceluiaș copac al Bisericii, iar fiecare ramură deține o parte a adevărului și așa împreună alcătuiesc totalitatea Bisericii: Anatema!

  Poporul: Anatema!

  1. Celor care mențin ideologia serghianismului care a subjugat și subjugă biserica lui Hristos sistemului ateu comunist și încalcă sfintele canoane, tradiția patristică și dumnezeieștile dogme, și distrugând întreaga creștinătate, cred că salvează biserica lui Hristos: Anatema!

  Poporul: Anatema!

  1. Tuturor ideologiilor care luptă împotriva adevăratei biserici ortodoxe prin care vine mântuirea omului, precum: new−age, yoga, teosofia, spiritismul, vrăjitoria, francmasoneria, ocultismul, satanismul care prin ecumenism pregătesc venirea lui Antihrist: Anatema!

  Poporul: Anatema!

  1. Fiecărei inovații și acțiuni potrivnice Predaniei Bisericii și învățăturii lăsate de către sfinții Părinți: mediatizarea și legiferarea imoralității Sodomei și Gomorei, precum și sinuciderea conștientă discret numită eutanasie: Anatema!

  Poporul: Anatema!

and the Google translation: (which obviously needs correction) [EDITS in CAPS]

• 1. Those who deny the being of God, and say that the world itself was made, and all of God's providence, but not by chance are: such as evolutionism, and that man is descended from monkeys or other foreign ideologies that creationist: Anathema.

  People: Anathema!

  1. Those crazy I tell you that our salvation had to clean our sins come into the world the Son of God in the flesh and receive willingly passion, death and resurrection: Anathema! EDIT [Does this condemn the Dogma of Redemption?]

  People: Anathema!

  1. Those who do not believe and confess that in one hypostasis of the person of Jesus Christ are two natures, human and divine, unmixed, unchanged, undivided and inseparable as Monophysitism: Anathema!

  People: Anathema!

  1. Those who dare to utter THAT the most pure Virgin Mary Mother of God was before birth, at birth and after birth NOT A Virgin: Anathema!

  People: Anathema!

  1. Those who do not believe the Holy Spirit and the apostles and prophets, and wise MEN through our new proclaimed the true path to repentance and reinforced it with wonders, and now lives in the hearts of faithful Christians and leadeth them any truth: Anathema!

  People: Anathema!

  1. Those who do not receive the grace of redemption preached the Gospel as the only means of purification, illumination and perfection before God: Anathema!

  People: Anathema!

  1. Those who believe in Reincarnation and deny the immortality of the soul, end of the world, judgment will be eternal reward in heaven for good deeds and condemnation for sin: Anathema!

  People: Anathema!

  1. Those who dare to sneak a second procession Creed, and the Son, the deity of the Holy Spirit, thus showing two cases the existential unity of the Trinity, Filioque as heresy: Anathema!

  People: Anathema!

  1. Those who remain in the Iconoclast heresy and blaspheme the holy icons Holy Church receives remembrance bineplăcuţilor works of God and his devotion to the awakening of those who look on them and the desire to follow the saints, and those who call them these idols, Anathema!

  People: Anathema!

  1. Those who disbelieve any of the seven Sacraments of the Church of Christ: Baptism, Chrismation, penance, Holy Eucharist, the priesthood (ordination) ceremony and Holy Unction: Anathema!

  People: Anathema!

  1. Those who deny the seven holy ecumenical synods and local synods holy Fathers and their teachings are a divine spirit glăsuitoare the discovery, and the One Holy Catholic and the blessing kept dreptslăvitoare: Anathema!

  People: Anathema!

  1. Those who teach or contribute directly or indirectly to promote pan-heresy of ecumenism, that is the creation of a database containing all the dogmas and religions, the truth will be revealed completely relativized and put on a level with any cheating and human conception and devilish and cultivating so-called theories of diseased bones of the two sister churches, the two lungs of the Church (Catholicism and Orthodoxy) and branches theory under which confensiuni different branches of the same tree as the Church, and each branch has a part of the truth and so together they make up the whole Church: Anathema! [EDIT: This condemns the Branch Theory and also Cyprianism or the belief that diseased parts are part of One Church]

  People: Anathema!

  1. Those who maintain that ideology Sergianism subjugated and subjugating the church of Christ atheist communist system and violate the canons, the patristic tradition and divine dogmas, and destroying Christendom, I think it saves the church of Christ: Anathema!

  People: Anathema!

  1. Everybody ideologies fighting Orthodox churches that comes true salvation of man, such as new-age, yoga, theosophy, spiritualism, witchcraft, freemasonry, occultism, Satanism that the ecumenism prepare the coming of the Antichrist: Anathema!

  People: Anathema!

  1. Every innovation and action to the tradition of the Church and the teachings left by Fathers: mediatization and legislating immorality of Sodom and Gomorrah, and suicide awareness discreetly called euthanasia: Anathema!

  People: Anathema!

  And those who need to Orthodoxy in word, writing, teaching, suffering and life pleasing to God, that defenders of the true faith and workers, along with the Church of Christ, celebrating the memory of the year, cry and binecredinciosule Holy Apostles Constantine and your mother Elena, dreptslăvitorilor kings of the Christian East: Theodosius, Justinian and other emperors and empresses as believers of Christianity Eastern kingdom, pray God to enlighten our path in this world of vanity with your life exemplary servants of God with great zeal dregătorească your help to strengthen the Church of Christ! Saint Nicodemus of Tismana holy Paisie Neamt, holy Patriarch Niphon of Constantinople, the holy bishop Gelasius in Ramet, Saint John Jacob from the wilderness Hozeva, Saint John and Saint Glicherie Maximovici Slătioara pray to the Triune God us from many and the various temptations of the times today that deviate us, unworthy of calling ourselves Christians, end-time, because of our spiritual and the good puţinătăţii ordinances of Christian life in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church of Christ! Dreptslăvitoarea Church of Christ, bringing glory and remember those who have had the devotion and showing it to all her sons therefore, dreptslăvitorilor Christians also have a duty to praise their struggles through the saving faith and good works in preparation is eternal happiness, strengthen Orthodoxy.