How are bishops in the ROCOR and in the GOC-K espousing ecumenism?

[Maria]

I didn't know that St John had arranged for Eugene Rose to be CHRISMATED !

Maybe that is why this was never explained well in the Platina biography as I recall. I would have to check it again, though.
I always assumed that this Eugene was baptized !

Wasent that normal pratice on receiving a roman catholic convert in the russian orthodox church before the the revolution? Thru chrism.

Although if i remember fr seraphim was from a methodist family .

Does any one know how people are recieved now through the rocor mp? My understanding is the goc- k rebabtizes.

The GOC-K usually receives all those coming from Roman Catholicism or from any Protestant sect by Baptism followed by Chrismation. These converts must undergo a complete catechumenate of instruction from one to three years. This applies also to all Roman Catholics or Protestants who were received by Chrismation into World Orthodoxy. They are considered to have been never been baptized into Roman Catholicism or Protestantism, and therefore, their Chrismation into World Orthodoxy does not count either.

On the other hand, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and Unitarians are received by baptism into World Orthodoxy and into True Orthodoxy because they are not Christians. Even the World Orthodox will baptize those from these cults.

Met. Moses of the Kallinikos Synod questions all those who have been received through baptism in World Orthodoxy to determine if their baptism was of the proper form. For example, he will receive all those who have not been properly baptized, such as all those children and adults who are baptized in a plastic kiddy pool (as seen in My Big Fat Greek Wedding), all those who have had water poured from a pitcher over their heads or their bodies, and/or those who have not been totally immersed three times into the water with all their limbs and every strand of hair totally submerged. All children and adult inquirers who have not been properly baptized must undergo a complete catechumenate before being baptized.

Even though Met. Moses is very strict, this is not the case with every bishop in the Kallinikos Synod, as it is up to the individual bishops to determine who will be received by baptism or chrismation. At the Cathedral in New York, some Catholics have been received by Chrismation.

Back in early 2012 before the SiR reunion, there was a huge group of Catholics who were received into the the Kallinikos Synod in Greece. As the baptismal font was empty with the drain opened, they were all received by improper baptism. Perhaps it was a hygiene issue, but one after another, these people would step into that empty font, have a pitcher of water poured over them by one priest, step from that font with a towel wrapped around them, and then walk over to another priest who would chrismate them. It was all on video at the Synod's main website. I immediately reported this to Met. Moses. All those videos were removed within one week.

Remember that many of the bishops in the Kallinikos Synod are now from the Synod in Resistance, which joined Archbishop Kallinikos back in 2014, thus varied practices in reception of converts are to be expected.

Whenever I have visited a Greek Orthodox Church under the EP to witness a baptism, whether that of a friend or my own grandchildren, the babies are almost always baptized in a small infant baptismal font, which does not allow for a total immersion. In fact, the chubby baby of almost a year can barely fit into that font, but can sit in the bottom of the font with his head visible above the rim of the font. How is that child to be properly immersed? It does not happen. The priest either pours a pitcher of water over the baby's head three times, or splashes the baby with water as the priest jostles him in that font three times. Once these babies grow up, should they decide to enter True Orthodoxy, they would need to be baptized.

Both the ROCOR-MP and the ROCOR under Agafangel will receive Catholics by Chrismation or even by Confession of Faith without baptism or chrismation. Protestants are usually received by baptism. Again, it depends on the Bishop, in whose diocese these catechumen reside.

By the way, here is an article on the difference between a font and a fount: http://grammarist.com/usage/font-vs-fount/

[Orthodox in Michigan]

Thank you for the explanation It makes one wonder why such a important rite as baptism is they dont pay attention to the details of it.

[Barbara]

Orthodox in Michigan, yes, I believe it was the way that Catholics were received by the Russian Church right before the Revolution.
There were phases of greater strictness and lesser strictness leading up to that era, with Patriarch Philaret [Romanov] favoring Protestants over Catholics and insisting on Catholic rebaptism.

...

Maria, that's really informative commentary. Thank you !

• Two paragraphs smearing the memory of Father Seraphim Rose have been edited out, and a warning has been issued.
  
  Maria
  Administrator

[Cyprian]

Barbara, I am going to ask you once again, to please stop your petty gibes and barbs, which seem to be an overt attempt to besmirch the memory of Fr. Seraphim. You are in no position to be standing in judgment of him, as he was clearly more orthodox than you and me.

[Maria]

Barbara, I am going to ask you once again, to please stop your petty gibes and barbs, which seem to be an overt attempt to besmirch the memory of Fr. Seraphim. You are in no position to be standing in judgment of him, as he was clearly more orthodox than you and me.

Cyprian,

Thanks for pointing this out. In the future, it would really help if you would please report any posts that violate our rules.

As a result of rule violations including sarcastic comments and a smear campaign against Father Seraphim, two of Barbara's posts have been moved into the Moderation Forum. The last post was copied and edited.

We should not be attacking or judging priests, especially those in the True Orthodox Churches. After his conversion, Father Seraphim Rose wrote many books which have helped lead perhaps thousands of people to Christ. May his memory be eternal.

Thanks,
Maria
Administrator

[d9popov]

Ah, now you are promoting the "Cyprianist" position not only of Met Chrysostomos of Florina, but also of the late Bishop Cyprian of the Synod in Resistance. In this age filled with ecumenism, we will never have a Pan-Orthodox Council that is truly Orthodox. Look at the recent robber-council of Crete, which promoted so much falsehood that four churches, including Russia, declined to sign the documents produced. However, the people who ran that false-synod electronically signed their names anyway. In Greece, the clergy who have refused to agree with the Cretan documents of 2016 have been defrocked and refused access to their former parishes.

Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina signed two encylicals stating that schismatic lose sacramental grace---and he also wrote letters that the timetable may be unclear. Metropolitan Cyprian of Oropos and Phyle and his people did not fully agree with Metropolitan Chrysostomos and the Phyle synod took a more liberal approach. A key difference was that Chrysostomos was writing BEFORE the lifting of the Anathemas, Cyprian after. That lifting was a crucial watershed.

Those who ran the robber council of Crete did not electronically sign names from Antioch, Russia, Georgia, or Bulgaria (non of whom attended at all) but they did electronically sign names of Greek and Serbian bishops who were there but who refused to sign one or two more blantently ecumenistic documents. This included Metropolitan Hieotheos S. Vlachos of Naupaktos and Hagios Vlasiou (Greek State Church) and Bishop Irenej Bulovich of Bachka (Serbian Patriarchate)---two "conservatives."

Within the State Church of Greece, I understand that some who stopped commemorating the hierarchy were disciplined, but I have not seen any evidence that simply speaking out against the Crete Council has lead to discipline.