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[Anastasios]

But Bishops being married for 600 years seems a bit much. Now I am well aware of the Apostles and other exceptions, but you seem to imply a usual practice among Bishops for a quarter of the life of the Church on Earth. Could I ask what your sources are for this? I am always learning new things and this is the equivelant of a tabloid headline! And if true, a very interesting piece of information.

OOD:

I am going to purposely choose not to discuss the divorced priest thing because of lack of time. Instead I will focus on married bishops.

It was common for there to be married bishops (albeit they grew less and less common as time went on) until the time of the Council in Trullo, which happened in the 6th to 7th century (I am at work right now or I would check the exact date). Trullo ruled that from that point on, bishops would be celibate. St. Emperor Justinian also had to issue an edict to make this the law.

I was trying to reasonable and say only 600 years as that is how long married bishops freely existed, but if you want to be exact, there were actually married bishops until the 12th century, how common I don't know, because the Emperor Isaac Angelos had to issue an edict banning it "once and for all." Apparently they just refused to separate from their wives. I will look up that edict's name, but my source is the book Vested in Grace: Priesthood and Marriage in the Christian East edited by Fr. Joseph Allen, although written by other contributers.

anastasios

[Nektarios14]

As far as elitism, this is what I sense. St. V's knows it is academically speaking the best place to study Orthodox theology in this country.

Simply absurd. First off how on earth can Orthodox Theology be studied academically? Orthodoxy and Orthopraxis are one and the same. The best place is understand Theology is the monastery, because it is in the monastic setting that Orthodoxy is lived to the fullest possible extent. When Theology is made into an academic science and removed from the practice of Hesychism, the birth of Scholasticism all other Western innovations is found. That is why a man with a second grade education can go to the Holy Mountain and become a great luminary of Orthodoxy and truly teach Patristic Orthodoxy (Elder Joseph of the Holy Mountain). Even the very well educated saints, like my very own heavenly patron, Saint Nektarios of Aegina - thier knowledge and teaching flowed from their holiness not their academic learning. That is why it is hard to take seriously any institution that prides itself on being academically Orthodox. That is the elitism that those of us who are not too sure about Saint Vladimir's see. There is a very good seminary that wonderfully intertwines the monastic life with academics in the same state as Saint Vladimir's. There is even the other OCA seminary, Saint Tikhon's that is very good. That is why it reeks of arrogance and pride to boast of being the best when there are so many other extremely good places to study Orthodoxy.

[TomS]

There is a very good seminary that wonderfully intertwines the monastic life with academics in the same state as Saint Vladimir's.

But I thought Holy Cross was near Boston?

[bogoliubtsy]

As it is quoted on the webpage of Holy Trinity Seminary in Jordanville:

If you are a theologian you will pray truly. And if you pray truly, you are a theologian.- Evagrios the Solitary

It seems then that the best seminary is the one most conducive to true prayer.

[Anastasios]

As it is quoted on the webpage of Holy Trinity Seminary in Jordanville:

If you are a theologian you will pray truly. And if you pray truly, you are a theologian.- Evagrios the Solitary

It seems then that the best seminary is the one most conducive to true prayer.

Which is why I love St. Vladimir's--with Vespers and Matins daily, Compline daily during Lent, several festal divine liturgies, full vigil on Sat, and many extra services, I pray a LOT here!

anastasios

[Anastasios]

Nektarios,

No, it is not absolutely absurd. You misunderstand me. Try not to jump at me with a type of knee-jerk reaction.

Of course I agree with you that you can't divorce the two and call it "knowing the Orthodox faith" in the sense of experiencing it. After all, that is what we are taught and shown by example here at St. Vladimir's which has so many liturgical services, fasting periods are kept, community service is organized, etc. It is a regimented and spiritual life here, and you should come visit and see for yourself.

However, in the context of what I said, namely that ST. V's is an academic institution as well as a "priest school", one CAN study Orthodox history, liturgy, spirituality, etc., in the context of a degree program similar to other programs found at North American and European universities. It's NOT the same, you are right--but it doesn't have the same goal in mind. Some Orthodox want to learn about Orthodoxy in an academic setting so they can then go and teach it in universities--thus getting the word out that way, and to do so, they must ensure they study it well, and I believe St. V's is the best place for that. It's not the same as LIVING Orthodoxy and of course if the person is not personally pious the message won't get spread--but the goal is different than one studying for priesthood, who will care for the spiritual needs of others. Of course personally the goal is the same--personal salvation--but I am talking about goals of studying.

anastasios

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Anastasios,

Thank you very much for bringing up the topic of married bishops. I was aware of a scattered handful over the centuries, but was somehow under the impression they were completley celebate much earlier. Funny, I read some of the canons and texts that I found which show that bishops were married - and it never caught my eye.

You got me on that one(!), and somehow when I wrote my response I thought you would.