Archbishop GREGORY of Denver and Colorado

[Incognito1583]

I was the one that said that. Not Alexey.

I have spent time with Gregory, and I know what social and theological cults are. Please tell me what he does that qualifies him as a cult. As I said, he does not hold people against their will. He does not force his monks to not associate with their familes. He does not control anyone. He does not hold to heresy. There is nothing in him that makes him a cult. While I believe he is either mentally or spiritually ill, I see no evidence he is a cult.

Give me one thing he does or teaches that qualifies him for cultism. You can claim anything you want. Produce the evidence.

[Suaidan]

I was the one that said that. Not Alexey.

I have spent time with Gregory, and I know what social and theological cults are. Please tell me what he does that qualifies him as a cult. As I said, he does not hold people against their will.

When Bp Andrei of ROAC tried to leave, he was held quite against his will.

He does not force his monks to not associate with their familes.

He is not that stupid. If their families aren't under him, he doesn't make them monks. He will only take in those he can control.

He does not control anyone.

If you do not do exactly what he says, you are shunned and treated as an outsider until you eventually leave (and those within are told to attack you as such), as countless people including myself have learned. It is the hallmark of many cults.

He does not hold to heresy.

He is a renovationist.

There is nothing in him that makes him a cult. While I believe he is either mentally or spiritually ill, I see no evidence he is a cult.

I don't really care what you see. I was in ROAC for almost a year when he became Bishop for Colorado. My life was a nightmare. When ROAC finally removed him, I thanked God.

Give me one thing he does or teaches that qualifies him for cultism. You can claim anything you want. Produce the evidence.

I have above, and can produce examples from my own experience. Now, if you are objective, you will admit them. Or you could say I am "slandering the leader".

one of his priests publicly refers to him as "the representative of Christ on earth".

Either he's a cult leader, or he is the new Pope Benedict. Since Orthodox don't believe in infallible Popes, I choose the former.

[Incognito1583]

SUAIDEN STATED: He is not that stupid. If their families aren't under him, he doesn't make them monks. He will only take in those he can control.

MY RESPONSE: Wrong again. My family is not even Orthodox, and Gregory blessed me to become a monk. However I never did.

SUAIDEN STATED: If you do not do exactly what he says, you are shunned and treated as an outsider until you eventually leave (and those within are told to attack you as such), as countless people including myself have learned. It is the hallmark of many cults.

MY RESPONSE: I observed that obediences were optional and not binding. He does nothing that is not reminiscent of any traditional group today.

I believe he is malicious and extremest. But who isn't, in traditionalism?

No, I see no evidence of cultism.

[Incognito1583]

If anyones a cult it's Saint Gregory Palamas Monastery in Etna.

[尼古拉前执事]

I was the one that said that. Not Alexey.

I have spent time with Gregory, and I know what social and theological cults are. Please tell me what he does that qualifies him as a cult. As I said, he does not hold people against their will. He does not force his monks to not associate with their familes. He does not control anyone. He does not hold to heresy. There is nothing in him that makes him a cult. While I believe he is either mentally or spiritually ill, I see no evidence he is a cult.

Give me one thing he does or teaches that qualifies him for cultism. You can claim anything you want. Produce the evidence.

As Joseph said, he tried to hold then-Archimandrite Andrei against his will, "Bishop John" cannot communicate with his family members that are not a member of Gregory's group anymore (other than to try to bring them back in to Gregory's "synodia"). Nathanael Kapner made claims of control as well. Perhaps to call his very few long time followers a cult of personality would be better?

[Incognito1583]

As Joseph said, he tried to hold then-Archimandrite Andrei against his will,

He had the right to. A monk's first priority and obedience is to their spiritual father. Andrei was disobedient and had ambition -- two vices that have no place in a monk.

"Bishop John" cannot communicate with his family members that are not a member of Gregory's group anymore (other than to try to bring them back in to Gregory's "synodia").

Can you refer me to a reliable source for this? Or is this from gossips? Saint John Climacus urges monks to dissasociate from family members anyway. No, there is no monastic violation here.

Nathanael Kapner made claims of control as well. Perhaps to call his very few long time followers a cult of personality would be better?

Hardly a credible source. The man is a tremendous gossip, malicious, vindictive and both spiritually and mentally ill.

[Suaidan]

He had the right to. A monk's first priority and obedience is to their spiritual father. Andrei was disobedient and had ambition -- two vices that have no place in a monk.

Really? That's a very sharp judgment of a man you probably know less of than Gregory of Colorado. I see we are following the leader. As well, you were not present for the events. Gregory himself had his ambition turned upon him; thinking he would finally get a second Bishop which he could use to consecrate Fr George, he released Fr Andrei to the care of the Synod. Then, when he realized that Metr Valentine intended to remove him from the monastery, he tried to hold Fr Andrei by force.

Can you refer me to a reliable source for this? Or is this from gossips? Saint John Climacus urges monks to dissasociate from family members anyway. No, there is no monastic violation here.

For someone who supposedly studies cults (which I am starting to believe you were "warned" to "disclaimer" by whom I suspect to be pulling your strings), you apparently know little about monasticism. Monastics are dead to the world, and thus, for their novitiate, have their communications with the world limited. But as a priestmonk? That is utterly ridiculous if you claim that is the real Orthodox practice. Remember Gregory of Colorado himself visits family members in other states. Either we are dealing with schizophrenic inconsistency or simple guru-cultism using monasticism as an excuse for these behaviors.

Hardly a credible source. The man is a tremendous gossip, malicious, vindictive and both spiritually and mentally ill.

And Gregory of Colorado made him a subdeacon.