Why do we follow the Old Orthodox Calendar

[Matthew]

Those of us raised in countries that believe in "separation of Church and State," must be mindful that politics and The Church have often been historically intertwined.

Just a little reminder for any readers who are not aware of this point: The phrase, "separation of church and state," was not something found in the Constitution of the US. It is from a private letter of President Thomas Jefferson, and was meant in the sense that Government shall be limited and prohibited from curtailing the activities of Christians and the free exercise of their faith in all aspects of life, public or private. Today it has been re-engineered to mean the opposite!

Thomas Jefferson, the very man who coined the phrase 'Separation of Church and State" also said, "The liberty to worship our Creator in the way we think most agreeable to His Will is a liberty deemed in other countries incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be its best support."
So who built the wall? The ACLU was the driving force behind building the wall.

For a full explanation See: http://www.ingodwetrustprod.com/newslet ... ndstate_01

So that Church and Politics are entwined is GOOD and not to be impeded. Indeed they will ALWAYS be entwined, the only question is will it be entwined in the manner that Christians will always be free to live their faith in public life, the workplace, in school, and have a voice to defend their beliefs and moral values where ever they live? Or, will the STATE impose its secular views upon the Christians to silence them, control them, and rob them of the free exercise of their faith? There is historically NO MIDDLE GROUND on this matter. Certainly no long lasting one. The nature of government is to control and limit and will always seek to control it's citizens given enough time. Either the State has free reign to control it's citizens in the sphere of religious life and conscience, or the citizen is free to exercise and have free expression of the demands and values of his faith in private AND public life. There is always a tug of war on this point until Congress is shackled by the law, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

[Lydia]

Well said, Icxypion. Even though I am Canadian, I was aware that the phrase is not found in the US Constitution. As you said, it has been twisted so that governments can now impede the free exercise of religion.
Wasn't it Jefferson who said "when the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is freedom." The Founding Fathers of the U.S.A. were very wise men.

[Maria]

The TAW poster (buzuxi02) has given me permission to post a follow-up here.

Metropolitan Theoclitos I of Athens was first deposed in 1917 when the Venezelist party came to power and was replaced with Meletios Metaxakis. When the royalists got back into power they deposed Metaxakis and reinstated Metropolitan Theoclitos. After the debacle in Smyrna the venezelists regained power again in 1924 and deposed Met Theocletos for the second time, replacing him with Met Chrysostomos.

Keep in mind that the vice president of the Synod of Greece pre-1924 was Met Chrysostom of demetrias who was instrumental in deposing Metaxakis and bringing back Theoclitos under the royalists. When the Venezelists/ British alliance succeeded in making Metaxakis the new Patriarch, Chrysostom retired in protest. As you know he came out of retirement in 1935 being one of the original bishops to lead the old calendar church alongside those bishops that returned their diocese back to the julian calendar.

While Met Chrysostomos of the state church of Athens (the see of athens being elevated to an arcbishopric at this time) remained archbishop till his death in 1938, it didnt actually stop the political meddling. When the second hellenic republic collapsed and the Metaxis (not to be confused with Metaxakis) pro-monarch party came to power in 1935-6, Metaxis saw his mission as restoring unity in order to usher in a new hellenic empire (the megali idea is another component of all this). When the archbishop died in 1938, Archbishop Damaskinos was elected but for whatever reason Metaxis didnt like him and chose his own man (Euthymios if memory serves me right). This government which morphed into a mild dictatorship collapsed in 1941 when the Nazis steamrolled in and took over. At that time the Synod deposed the government elected archbishop and Damaskinos was reinstated again in 1941.

This actually affected the Greek parishes here in America as well. But that's a story for another day.

There is this post below from another forum. Is this true?

http://www.christianforums.com/t7714287-4/#post62143405

Everything you read on the issue is an oversimplification. There just the talking points and no side wants to really discuss the historical situation of Greece which lead to this problem.

From the time of WW1 to the greek civil war in the late 1940's the nation was bitterly divided over royalists and republicans. This was so severe that its known as the 'National Schism" in greek history books. There was so much political polarization that there was bitter fighting over calendars, over which form of the greek langage should be used, to what architecture pubic buildings should have.

The animosity and rift between the royalists and the Venezelists lead to the defeat of the greek army in Turkey which resulted in the Smyrna Genocide. During these early years (before and after Smyrna) everytime there was a regime change between the two factions, they would also oust the archbishop and replace him with one loyal to their regime. So one archbishop would be exiled then brought back after the regime change, and once the regime fell again to their predecessor they would reinstate the former bishop while exiling the latter non-loyal one .

After the Smyrna catastrophe, the royalists in charge were ousted once again. The new calendar was implemented and the new government is known as the Second Helenic Republic and lasted from 1924-1935. The majority of the old calendarists tended to be royalists and heavy handed approaches were used to squash them. The bishops either sided with the regime, while others were sympathetic to the old calendarists but kept silent not to draw the wrath of the regime.

By 1935 the pendulum began to swing the other way (an ongoing great depression and the absorption of 1.5 million refugees will do that) and the president became a royalist sympathizer. This lead to the 1935 Venezelist coup to rid the government of royalists. The Venezelists were crushed and the monarchy was reinstated. The venezelist sympathizers in the military were convicted of treason and put to death. There was a purge of the venezelists from the government. At that time, the bishops sympathetic to the old calendar felt free to return their diocese back to the old calendar without persecution.

This is how the old calendarists recieved there bishops. This is why the 1935 old calendarists declaration speaks of dividing the church between 'two opposing camps'. They reallly had in mind the National Schism, (though obviously sympathetic to the royalist position).

At that time there was a belief the old calendar would be returned as the bishops loyal to the previous government would either capitulate, be replaced, or whatever. Unfortunately WW2 came along and then the civil war broke out against the emergent communists and everything was put on the back burner. Thats how we went up from there to here.

[Matthew]

Reading these kinds of things makes my head spin. :ohvey: Before I am halfway through I am entirely confused. It is easier to follow the twisted plots of Young and the Restless than to follow these Jurisdictional Sagas.

[Archimandrit Nilos]

Archbishop Matthew (Karpathakis) (+1950) of Blessed Memory was never a "suffragan-bishop", but the ruling Bishop of Vresthene.

Arch. Nilos:

Please remember that in the public forum, even if an old polemical thread is resurrected, we are not to continue the polemics.
Therefore, your post has been edited to remove one polemical sentence. Continued violations will result in warnings.

In Christ,
Maria