Why traditionalists Baptize heretics, Split from The OCA

Patristic theology, and traditional teachings of Orthodoxy from the Church fathers of apostolic times to the present. All forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


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gbmtmas

Post by gbmtmas »

After having sat and watched the discussion between Mor Ephrem and Seraphim Reeves, I can't help but to find myself in agreement with Mor WRT Baptism. A Buddhist, a Jew, or an Islamist who approach the Church are baptized with the understanding that they are wholly unbaptized pagans. It has been clearly shown from the Ecumenical Councils and a Russian Synod that this black/white approach has not been applied to members of various Christian confessions. Some have merely been received via Confession and a renunciation of errors (Assyrians, Non-Chalcedonians, and sometimes Latins), while some have been received only through Chrism (Protestants). This practice long predates modern times and the age of ecumenical engagement. Lex credendi, lex orandi.

gbmtmas

Daniel
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Post by Daniel »

But you have to understand why the church as allowed for economy in receving converts, and under what conditions determined the form of recieving certain heretics/schismatics .

The short answer would be because of pastoral reasons. You could also argue political if you pushed hard enough. Basically the Church did what ever was most beneficial to Her and to the souls she is/was trying to save. If it would help bring in large numbers in to the Church, or to help prevent violence against Christians, the Church exercised economy. Provided the Apostolic form of baptism was maintain in the heretical/schismatic group.

In the case of the Russian practise, prior to the 17th century council the practise was to baptize Latins. But, according to Met. Anthony, when large portions of land were aquired by the Tsar that contained many Uniates economy was used to facilitate receiving large numbers of converts. It wasn't mentioned, but I'm sure they still preserved Apostolic Baptism (thrine immersion and emmersion).

A reason for only chrismatind Arians was 1) because they preserved the Apostolic Baptism and 2) because it became confusing determing which Arian converts had Orthodox Baptism (those baptized Orthodox, went to the Arian, and then repented) and which had the polluted Arian 'baptism'.

But I can never stress enough, despite the apparent contradiction canons allowing economy give, the Church has never, and will never recognize any amount of validity in any heretical/schismatic baptism. There is only one baptism, every thing else is a pollution. Thusly, baptizing converts doesnot violate any canon (or the Creed) against rebaptizing. If local churches wish to receive converts from heretical/schismatic 'churches' who maintain an Apostolic Baptism (3 immersion) for the sake of saving souls, or just for the overall benefit of the Church, so be it. The rule still is every one is baptized.

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PFC Nektarios
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Post by PFC Nektarios »

Wow, I got some thing right! 8)

In Christ
OrthodoxLearner

David
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Baptism of Heretics

Post by David »

I have read most of the posts on this thread and I have seen the same subject discussed on other threads but there is one patristic text I never see quoted in this topic....................
I myself tend to lean towards the "Cyprianite" position but in St. Vincent of Lerins' Commonitorium there is a section dealing specifically with the issue of Sts. Cyprian and Stephen of Rome. I wonder if anyone would read ch. 6 of St. Vincent's work and respond to it?
God Bless!
David

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