Seraphim Rose on the Matthewites

[Barbara]

Is it all right to mention that his face looks wicked to me ? He was consecrated by the wonderful St John Maximovitch. But perhaps St John was complying with orders from the Synod in New York and did not personally favor the elevation. One wonders whether the Saint foresaw any of this disaster that unfolded as a result of this A. gaining a foothold to exert leverage over good members of the Rocor clergy. If only this A. [Bartoshevich] had left Rocor and gone to the OCA ! So much trouble would have been avoided.
But we can surmise that this was precisely his assignment, so he stuck like glue to Rocor til his repose.

[d9popov]

Do you believe that the hypothesis of evolution is in any way compatible with the Orthodox Christian faith and is reconcilable with the Sacred Scriptures and the teachings of the Holy Fathers? Do you proclaim Augustine of Hippo to be a saint and Holy Father

FOLLOWING THE CONSENSUS OF THE SAINTS
AND AVOIDING WORLDLY CONSPIRACY THEORIES
A Response to Cyprian

Dear Cyprian:

Hristos voskrese!

I have had the opportunity to read dozens (perhaps well over 100) of your postings, on Euphrosynos Cafe and elsewhere. You have made many, many excellent statements: We should follow the consensus of the saints. We should try to avoid pagan culture such as Harry Potter. We should try to avoid believing disinformation (fake news) websites that claim falsely that we have found animal bones on Mars, etc., etc.

You obviously have read Holy Fathers and can frequently quote from them. I love that!

At the same time, I read many disturbing statements.

AUGUSTINE. Allow me to suggest humbly that you may have gone too far when you issued an anathema against me (and others) for upholding the traditional Orthodox view, such as held by Saint John Cassian and Saint Vincent of Lerins, against some of the error-filled writings of Bishop Augustine of Hippo. I have already posted several paragraphs upholding the traditional Orthodox stance against the errors in Augustine’s writings and about the traditional lack of liturgical veneration of Augustine in the Orthodox East. (Veneration in the Latin West accelerated as the West was in the process of falling away, with the Franks. So there is no consensus in West or East for an Orthodox liturgical veneration of Augustine.) The traditional Orthodox view against the errors in Augustine’e writings is worlds apart from the Latinophrone view of Ecumenical Patriarch Gennadius II (George Curtesius) Scholarius, who was an ardent follower of Thomas Aquinas and was one of the most Latin-influenced patriarchs is Eastern Orthodox history. The fact that the great Saint Mark Eugenicus, Metropolitan of Ephesus, was successful on his deathbed in persuading Gennadius to flip-flop, and start opposing the un-Orthodox union of Florence, does not change the fact the Gennadius’s writings are chock full of Latin theology that is foreign to the Orthodox Church. Simply put, the Orthodox Church does not follow Gennadius on Augustine. Once again, the (possibly-interpolated) comments in the Latin records of the proceedings of the Fifth Ecumenical Council are not at all the consensus decree of the Council; and those comments emphasized that a theologian who died in peace with the Church could be condemned posthumously for errors found in his writings later. Augustine is put in the same category as non-saint Theophilus of Alexandria, the opponent of Saint John Chrysostom. So, the Orthodox Church is free to reject Augustine’s errors even more today, now that newly-discovered writings have appeared and Eastern Orthodox (for the first time in history) can examine the totality of his writings. I am not advocating an innovation, but only a critique based on the traditional critiques already made by Saints Vincent, John Cassian, Photius, and countless others. It is very divisive to anathematize people today for upholding this traditional critique of Augustine’s writings. Such anathemas bring unnecessary division among true Orthodox Christians who should be united in following the consensus of the universally-accepted council decrees and the universally-accepted dogmatic consensus of the saints. Today, as for 15 centuries, the faithful are free to have various opinions on Augustine, without breaking communion over the issue. Historically, however, it is an undeniable fact that Augustine lacked historical liturgical veneration in the Orthodox Churches of the East. You and I and everyone on Euphrosynos Cafe all believe that his false notion of allegedly heretical-but-valid sacraments was a serious error that was made more error-filled by how it was further developed by the ecumenists today.

WORLDLY CONSPIRACY THEORIES. Most people do not accept your worldly conspiracy theories: “the secret society” controls things; Zionists control so many things; the Ecumenical Patriarchate and the Moscow Patriarchate have the same political agenda; Clint Eastwood and others in Hollywood predict future events in their films and TV programs; moon landings were faked; the Earth does not revolve around the sun.; etc. Knowledgeable people will not want to be Orthodox if they are persuaded that those things are what Orthodox Christians believe. There are dozens of mainstream scholarly books about Zionism (like Mearsheimer and Walt’s famous book The Israel Lobby). Why not start with mainstream scholarly books that documents open facts, rather than rely on obviously-forged documents like the Protocols of Zion? There is a danger that people will believe the most inaccurate worldly books and ignore the books that document the open agendas and actual facts that anyone can verify. Clearly, the massive opposition to Trump’s plan to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem shows that Zionists do not control everything. There are, in fact, numerous kinds of different Zionisms and debates and critiques about various kinds of Zionism.

ORTHODOXY AND MAINSTREAM SCIENCE. Your comments against evolution (and we NEED an Orthodox critique of mainstream evolutionary theories) were so simplistic that the comments seemed (to this sincere reader) to exclude ANY evolution whatsoever, even microevolution. If you believe that that humanity is less than ten thousand years old, how do you explain the difference between pygmies, Khoi-San, Bantu, Australian aboriginals, Han Chinese, and Icelanders? Not only their appearances (phenotypes) but also their genetic codes (genomes) are distinct, yet they are all equally human. Mainstream science believes that these differences are the result of evolution over more than 40,000 years. In fact, if you insist on confining humanity to less than 10,000 years, you may be forced into believing in four-times GREATER and faster evolution to explain the changes among these distinct human populations. The Holy Fathers were sometimes quite knowledgeable about the mainstream science of their day. They did not put human sciences above the divinely-revealed dogmas of the Orthodox faith. But they never said: “Let us determine what the mainstream worldly view is and then let us chose to believe the most anti-mainstream (fringe) view possible.” Those Orthodox today who have a propensity to latch on to fringe worldly conspiracy theories are free to do so, but they are not following the consensus of the saints when they do that. If we ask scientific questions, then we should seek the best science, not the most extreme and fantastic.

FOCUSING ON TRUTH AND REALITY. Let us focus on the God-given dogmas and commandments of Orthodox Christianity. If we are interested in science and culture, let us try to avoid fantastic conspiracy theories. Mainstream science and psychology provides incontrovertible evidence that “many passions war against” us. In fact, there is definite overlap in some things that the Holy Fathers and modern evolutionary theorists say about human passions and the human aversion to death. Why not emphasize when modern science PROVIDES SUPPORT for Orthodox views. Mainstream learning provides sufficient documentation that our culture is devolving into relativism, hedonism, and paganism. There is no need for Orthodox to read bizarre things about faked moon landings, faked or man-made earthquakes, Hollywood “prophecies,” a “secret society,” or similar things. Mainstream science and scholarship (sheared of its prejudices) will provide much support for Orthodox Christian beliefs about fallen human passions and about anti-Christian cultural and political movements. We should oppose sinful passions and open-agenda anti-Orthodox ideologies, not “secret societies” and conspiracies that do not exist.

[d9popov]

I feel very strongly that we are demoralizing and spiritually-harming our Orthodox youth if we deny facts and affirm unlikely-but-tantalizing conspiracy theories. Yes, scientists often have a prejudice against spiritual beliefs and moral values. Yes, God frequently allows atheist scientists to discover scientific truths before God’s people learn these truths. (That’s because these scientific truths do not cause our salvation). Yes, the Earth turns on an axis and revolves around the Sun. Yes, the Masonic movements played a key role in introducing religious relativism into the Greek hierarch. No, Masons, Zionists, and Illuminati do not control this world. Yes, adherents of rabbinic Judaism oppose the messiahship and deity of Christ. No, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is not an authentic book. Yes, the Nazi Holocaust of the Jews did kill millions of Jews, including in extermination camps and including with gas chambers. There are Orthodox Christian witnesses to the German gassing of Serbian Jews in Belgrade. Truly, Axis forces killed millions of other civilians, including Orthodox Christian civilians as well. Sometimes Jews and Orthodox Christians were killed side but side (for example, in the Jasenovac death camp). Holocaust denial is anti-reality and anti-Orthodox. Yes, the media often neglect to inform people that Communism killed more people than the Axis forces. Some Jews, Slavs, and Baltic peoples are all guilty for the rise of murderous Bolshevism. Some apostate Jews, apostate Orthodox Christians, apostate Roman Catholics, apostate Protestants, and apostate pagans are guilty of Communist genocides. Yes, JFK was killed by the pro-Communist domestic terrorist Lee Harvey Oswald. Yes, the Americans landed on the Moon. Yes, Hollywood pushes anti-Christian values. No, Hollywood is not controlled by any secret society. No, Hollywood does not prophesy about future events. No, Jews do not control America’s public education system. Post-Christian liberal Protestants (along with non-religious “progressives”) are probably the most influential, especially in large urban school districts. Yes, the CIA probably did funnel money to ROCOR, as the CIA did to numerous non-Communist organizations. Yes, the CIA did support non-Communist dictatorships in the Third World. No, Kissinger and the CIA did not want atrocities against Greek Orthodox Cypriots. No, the CIA does not “flood” America’s street with crack cocaine. Yes, 9/11 was planned and executed by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Mohamed Atta. No, 9/11 was not planned or executed by Zionists, neoconservatives, the military-industrial complex, or people in the George W. Bush administration. No animal bones have been found on Mars. Mainstream science does not believe that Earth will experience a mini-ice-age soon. The above assertions are common, extremely-well-documented knowledge. We are doing great harm to our children if we feed them fake news, disinformation, and conspiracy theories in place of well-documented facts.

[d9popov]

If only this A. [Bartoshevich] had left Rocor and gone to the OCA ! So much trouble would have been avoided.
But we can surmise that this was precisely his assignment, so he stuck like glue to Rocor til his repose.

I have an open mind on the subject of Archbishop Anthony of Geneva and his alleged connection to the KGB. I had previously heard of his ecumenism, but also heard that he was anti-Moscow. If it is true that he was actually pro-Sergianist, I hope that this is exposed and documented. We greatly need an objective history of ROCOR, both the glories and the betrayals. ROCOR certainly was infiltrated, but we need a non-sensationalist book on this topic.

[Maria]

If only this A. [Bartoshevich] had left Rocor and gone to the OCA ! So much trouble would have been avoided.
But we can surmise that this was precisely his assignment, so he stuck like glue to Rocor til his repose.

I have an open mind on the subject of Archbishop Anthony of Geneva and his alleged connection to the KGB. I had previously heard of his ecumenism, but also heard that he was anti-Moscow. If it is true that he was actually pro-Sergianist, I hope that this is exposed and documented. We greatly need an objective history of ROCOR, both the glories and the betrayals. ROCOR certainly was infiltrated, but we need a non-sensationalist book on this topic.

Two steps forward (to advance the cause of communism), but one-step backwards (to confuse the ignorant). That is the motto of communist agents and provocateurs.

Pretending to be anti-Moscow was easy as the allegiance changed frequently with nasty purges ordered from the top.
Purges were a way to entrap people and to catch those asleep at the wheel.

We can only know from Anthony of Geneva's victims, one of which was Met. Anthony of San Francisco. This hierarch was staunchly anti-MP union. However, after meeting with Anthony of Geneva, he suddenly changed his tune. Nevertheless, Met. Anthony allowed those priests who remained anti-MP to leave him, keep their parish buildings, and find another Orthodox bishop without the fear of losing their parish or of being defrocked. There could be other compromising pictures or events as well.

Other anti-MP union hierarchs who had the horror of a sudden visit by Anthony of Geneva also changed their minds abruptly to that of a pro-union position. One way of potentially blackmailing a hierarch into doing the will of the KGB, would be taking a picture of that hierarch greeting a woman who turned out to be a prostitute even if that hierarch had never previously met that woman in his entire life. There is the old saying, "A picture is worth a thousand words."

And look what happened to St. Nectarios of Aegina, the spiritual father of St. Matthew of the GOC. He was also set-up by nefarious men in Alexandria who forced him to leave Alexandria in disgrace. And yes, d9, these are called conspiracies, conspiracies imagined by Satan himself.

[Barbara]

But a photo of a Rocor hierarch greeting some woman could hardly be used against him when set up the way you described. After all, merely smiling slightly or such would not qualify for slander.
The KGB would have to have gotten really much worse material to create any scandal. I hope that the KGB did not manage to do so, but what in the world could they have fed A. Anthony of Geneva to cause such shock and fear ? That is difficult to imagine considering the upright character of the Rocor hierarchs in general. One could disagree with this word or that deed, but none were dishonorable in this field. Certainly not Abp Anthony of SF ! What on earth could have been dug up about him ?

I can absolutely FEEL when you wrote 'the horror of a visit' from this sinister villain, how bone-chilling that was for the poor 'victims', as you rightly characterized these innocent targets of the KGB.

But what could the Geneva hierarch have had to hold over their heads ? I am mystified.

[Maria]

But a photo of a Rocor hierarch greeting some woman could hardly be used against him when set up the way you described. After all, merely smiling slightly or such would not qualify for slander.
The KGB would have to have gotten really much worse material to create any scandal. I hope that the KGB did not manage to do so, but what in the world could they have fed A. Anthony of Geneva to cause such shock and fear ? That is difficult to imagine considering the upright character of the Rocor hierarchs in general. One could disagree with this word or that deed, but none were dishonorable in this field. Certainly not Abp Anthony of SF ! What on earth could have been dug up about him ?

I can absolutely FEEL when you wrote 'the horror of a visit' from this sinister villain, how bone-chilling that was for the poor 'victims', as you rightly characterized these innocent targets of the KGB.

But what could the Geneva hierarch have had to hold over their heads ? I am mystified.

Pictures taken when greeting a strange women are always a risky venture for any man.

I remember having my picture taken with a politician not too long after I had graduated from high school. This was decades before Anthony of Geneva had died in 1993.. There was a professional photographer who took pictures of all guests. I asked the photographer about the pictures and I was told that a complete background check was done on all people who visited that politician. He said that one could not be too careful and that many Mayors, Governors, Senators and Congressmen had been dismissed or have resigned on false charges of having an affair, and that he would not release any photos until a background check revealed who that person was.

When I attended Hoover Institute at Stanford, FBI and CIA agents warned us how KGB agents blackmail people. One way was introducing a criminal or prostitute to a person, having a picture taken of the event, and then later on making the charge of guilt by association. It is impossible to prove innocence if a picture is taken with a criminal or person with loose morals, especially if two persons are seen together regularly. Another method used by the KGB and the Mafia was to send a prostitute to a man's house or his hotel room, and then have a photo taken of said prostitute at that place. If that same person shows up uninvited at various functions, it paints a bad picture.