Being Recieved into Orthodoxy

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Mon 22 December 2003 8:13 am

moronikos,

Met. St. Philaret, who lived at the time and who was in a position to know the truth much better than we, obviously believed Athenagoras added the popes name to the Dyptichs, enough to even write an official letter to the GOA's Iakovos.

In this letter, he even qoutes part of what was added: "all the confessions of the East and West"

As far as I'm concerned, since they have never said this has been stricken, they are still doing this today. If not, then you'll have to show me where they have revearsed what they've said.

http://stmaryofegypt.org/library/philar ... akovos.htm

We therefore regard it as our duty to protest strongly against the distortion of the dogma of the Church so insistently made by His Holiness Patriarch Athenagoras and Your Eminence. We protest against the "Ecumenical Doxology" and against the inclusion in the Diptychs by His All Holiness Athenagoras of the name of the Pope of Rome and of "all the confessions of the East and West," which was announced in His Holiness' Christmas Message. This inclusion in the Diptychs has always been testimony that a certain person is recognized as Orthodox. If the Fifth Ecumenical Council ordered the name of Theodore of Mopsuestia stricken from the Diptychs when his teaching was found unorthodox, then how can any Patriarch or Bishop now include in the Diptychs those who do not even nominally belong to the Orthodox Church, and who, on the contrary, continue to proclaim doctrines inconsistent with her dogmas?

Moronikos · Post by **Moronikos** » Mon 22 December 2003 10:55 am

You are certainly free to believe whatever you want. You may believe that someone wrote that I was a cannibal and that since I have never written any article saying that I stopped being a cannibal that I am still a cannibal.

Someone asked for first hand information that Athenagoras added the Pope to the diptychs. So far, I have not seen any first hand evidence that he did. He may, or he may have not. The only first hand evidence presented thus far does not indicate that Athenagoras did modify the diptychs as has been alleged.

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Mon 22 December 2003 11:14 am

Well moronikos,

If I looked into your house through a window and saw heads hanging out to dry like beef jerky and you continually were seen entering the local lodge of canibals 'R' us, were the author of canibal "how to" articles, and signed connfessions that you did eat people - what sane person concerned for his physical well-being would come over to your house to share a cup of coffee, even though they never actually saw you eat someone?

And how much more should we fear those who can "kill the body AND the soul"?

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Mon 22 December 2003 11:19 am

And now, our "suspected" canibal...

AND PLEASE SEE THE QOUTE ABOUT THE DIPTYCHS...

[I had to remove this article because I realized I have no permission to copy it here.]

http://ecclesiagoc.org/index.cfm?ID=59

Popup blockers must be turned off for this link to work.

Moronikos · Post by **Moronikos** » Tue 23 December 2003 12:52 am

I believe Christ was speaking of the Father when he said to fear him who could destroy both body and soul. I am not equating Athenagoras to God nor claiming that power for him (Athenagoras). However, if you want to misapply a quote or play loose with the facts, feel free.

PFC Nektarios · Post by **PFC Nektarios** » Tue 23 December 2003 3:44 am

ROAC, HOCNA, and ROCIE
have all broken away from ROCOR because of meer political reasons.
ROCOR has outwardly condemed every thing that these groups do.
They want to be Fanatical Extremists, thats their only argument.

Just because the "Goverment" appoints a bishop does that mean
he looses his priesthood? The Byzantine Emperors
appointed the Patriarch of Constatinople a few times, I believe.
Yet they are still recognized as valid Patriarchs.

Groups like this in my opinion are created to be more
"Traditionalist" then the rest of Orthodoxy, I think
ROCOR has a good balance. Traditionalist yet not Fundamentalist, which
is what these other groups appear to be. Just look at ROAC in americas
web site. Its all about "heretic, heretic, heretic, schismatic, heretic".
They sound like a bunch of Pharisees more then Orthodox, just my Outward opinion looking in.

In Christ
OrthodoxLearner

Joe Zollars · Post by **Joe Zollars** » Tue 23 December 2003 4:04 am

OrthodoxLearner wrote:
ROAC, HOCNA, and ROCIE
have all broken away from ROCOR because of meer political reasons.
ROCOR has outwardly condemed every thing that these groups do.
They want to be Fanatical Extremists, thats their only argument.

ROCiE did break for political reasons. HOCNA broke because they wanted to maintain a lifestyle that was contradictory to the Christian Teaching (for info on this group see the new thread on them down in the Traditional Orthodox Church Section). ROAC broke with ROCOR because ROCOR went into communion with a group of heretics (the Cyprianite TOCs).

Of course ROCOR has condemned these groups. Since you brought up politics, these denials were purely for political purposes. They wanted to show that these people were extremists so that the shaky sand that makes up their own foundation won't be too visable. Such is only logical.

Just because the "Goverment" appoints a bishop does that mean
he looses his priesthood? The Byzantine Emperors
appointed the Patriarch of Constatinople a few times, I believe.
Yet they are still recognized as valid Patriarchs.

Do you honestly believe there is no difference between an Orthodox Ruler and Joseph Stalin? When a person begins to teach heresy (as the Sergianists did by supporting the athiestic regime inplace at that time and continuing to support it s remants even today), they cease being part of hte Church and therefore loose the ability to offer the Mysteries.

groups like this in my opinion are created to be more
"Traditionalist" then the rest of Orthodoxy, I think
ROCOR has a good balance. Traditionalist yet not Fundamentalist, which
is what these other groups appear to be. Just look at ROAC in americas
web site. Its all about "heretic, heretic, heretic, schismatic, heretic".
They sound like a bunch of Pharisees more then Orthodox, just my Outward opinion looking in.

The website's articles I admit seem to be more pointed at those in world "orthodoxy" than those who are inquirers. Or at least it seems so to me. For articles directed towards inquirers I suggest contacting Fr. George directly (Cafe username HegumenGeorge) and I know from experience he can direct one towards some excelent reading material.

I have never met one person who has carried on an inperson conversation (or a phone one for that matter) with either Vladyka Gregory or Fr. George and been able to truthfully call them heretical. If you wish to speak with Vladyka or Fr. George go to the directory at roacamerica.org and get their number. Vladyka is usually available around 7pm your time (just about when they are finishing dinner) on weeknights or during the afternoon for Fr. George.

In Christ,
Nicholas Zollars