Deaconesses, Baptism and Catechumens

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尼古拉前执事
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Yes, but only in rare and specific situations requiring it.

Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

In Aegina, this was the rule I believe:

Abbesses can enter the altar at any time. In larger convents, certain nuns are appointed by the Abbess (with the approval of the Bishop) to enter the altar to maintain it and the vestments of the clergy�but it should be known that other nuns cannot enter the altar. Nuns appointed to help in the altar are usually chosen from those who have been in the convent from a young age.

But this is a super-special situation of in a convent only.

Last edited by 尼古拉前执事 on Mon 3 October 2005 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Logos
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Re: 4-22-03

Post by Logos »

Paradosis wrote:

"The wife of him who is advanced to the Episcopal dignity, shall be separated from her husband by their mutual consent, and after his ordination and consecration to the episcopate she shall enter a monastery situated at a distance from the abode of the bishop, and there let her enjoy the bishop's provision. And if she is deemed worthy she may be advanced to the dignity of a deaconess." - Quinisext Council, Canon 48

Sorry for screwing up the thread here, but we do not have deaconesses anymore. Would that make this canon no longer relevant?

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

That's ok, Mod's have super powers that allow us to do amazing things like stop spammers in the blink of an eye, split threads with a single click, and so forth. ;)

Regarding your question, the answer--as is so often the case when you ask a question about Orthodoxy--is both yes and no! The canon is not "relevant" in that it is not applicable for our context. We don't have deaconesses, or married bishops for that matter. So, the letter of the canon is not relevant for us (at least at this time, though considering how some people, e.g., Met. Philip, are trying to bring some of these types of things back, it may become needed again sometime soon).

It is relevant, however, because the spirit of Orthodox canons are always relevant. So what is the spirit of this canon? I'm not the guy to ask, so I hesitate to even speculate. However, just to give an example of a possibility, we might say that the canon teaches us that Bishops are to devote their entire lives to the service of God and his Church, and that nothing--not even a wife--can prevent him from this calling. It is also important to note, though, that the wife has to agree to this; this isn't simply a matter of putting the wife away when she's no longer needed: their would have to be consent by all sides (the other bishops, the bishop being ordained, the wife and family) that it was God's will that this all be done. You cannot merely abandon a wife, even if it is so that you become bishop; she always has a say. And even if there is a mutual seperation, it is still the new bishop's duty to care for her in the ways that he is capable of doing so; this is a good concept for us to remember as there are so many seperations and problems in marriage today. Seperation, even by mutual consent, does not mean that the husband's duty has ended.

Julianna

No.

Post by Julianna »

Perhaps not applicable to current discipline but never irrelevant

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Post by Liudmilla »

You gentlemen are mistaken. We do have deaconesses in this day and age. They are generally found in women's monasteries. I saw such a person many years ago at the Novo-Deveevo monastery in Springvalley, New York. I'm not sure of the rules that apply to such a position, but it is in use in this modern day.

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Mary Kissel
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Post by Mary Kissel »

well if Deaconesses are being used yet, I have never seen any....they must be few and far between if what you say is true liudmilla.
and thankyou justin for posting that answer, what you said makes sense to me.

one question on the aspect of having deaconesses, if they are still in use(if liudmilla is right..) then what would their duties be now since we don't (as far as I know) Baptise adults completely naked?? would they do the same things that Deacons do or not? Does anyone know?

MaryCecilia

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

I'm not sure about today, but when they were in use in ancient times, some of their duties (in addition to the baptism thing) was to catechise females, and to "keep order" on the side of the church in which women stand. This is indeed a very interesting thing you mention Liudmilla, thank you for mentioning it.

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