Western "holidays" that fall during fasts

[Daniel]

I some what agree with Anastasios. The fasts are not ends of themselves, but a means to an end. If they get lessend and moved around for the benefit of the faithful, then so what? (Now, doing the samething for reasons of fashion is totally different). There exists a diffenernce in fasting practices between the Greeks and Russians, so why not this one allowance?

Some advice that was given me years ago while I was still living at home, with non-Orthodox family, was to eat whatever they made, and to not make a show of fasting.

[Elijah]

When Thanksgiving falls shortly after the fast begins my family and I celebrate the holiday a several days early.

It should be noted though that when you are in someone the house we as Orthodox Christians are SUPPOSED to accept whatever food we are given. (but not overly indulge in it such as asking for seconds or thirds )

Of course since we know if a holiday falls during the fast before hand or not we probably shouldn't accept the invitation if it infact does fall in the fast. But say if you are staying at a relatives house for a week visit ing and they serve steak for dinner on Friday you should eat it humbly and confess it in confession.

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Elijah, that would be my understanding as well. People expect to see us however on Thanksgiving and it would create some scandal to not accept.

The people who are not as close to us are easily fooled on Thanksgiving, my wife brings a dish. I am usually able to get a plate of my wife’s dish, and a few other things, and quietly retreat in a corner somewhere. Once I had to stay at the “Main” table and I was put on the spot: “Why don’t you eat some of this or some of that?”, but I was prepared with my usual line: “My Physician has me on a special diet.” Hehehe. They usually turn away looking quite perplexed.

For my new-calendarist family, I come right out and say, we are fasting. It is they, after all, who call themselves Orthodox too.

But I am not here trying to tell anyone else what to do. Everyone should do according to his or her conscience and as their priest advises. Priests often make fasting rules different for different people.

PS. btw, a good summary sashaedwardovna.

[Savva24]

I'm not sure what Savva24 meant by that but I would like to add a few comments.

Actually, I don't think I disagree with you. Your comments just struck me as a little sentimental on first reading and I was attempting to be funny. Seriously though, I really don't see any benenfit in the Church issuing a decree saying that we can lax the fasts on certain days, like the Antiochians did when they got rid of the 40 days of fasting after Pascha. If one is with family on American holidays and feels that it would be good for family harmony and celebration of the special day to lax I think that is fine but the ideal should remain in effect.

There is also another danger. From what I read, the Aleut changes in fasting disipline was due to the fact that they had no other food than non fasting food. I have been living in Japan for the past three years and the Japanese Church, though on the Old Calendar for the rest of the year, celebrates Christmas on Dec. 25 for the sake of having a fast free New Year's celebration (which is the center of the Japanese festiv year). Somthing which was decided in recent times, not by St. Nicholas of Japan. At first it would seem that this may not be a bad idea. But besides the natrual disharmony in the church calendar that follows (which I have heard complained by both Japanese Orthodox priests and laymen) a bigger problem seems to have come, namely putting the culture above the Church. I say this because in the parish here in Yokohama they have a moleben on New Years and I have never seen more children in Church there at any other time (even on Pashca!) and more adults than there normaly is on a regular Sunday (and certainly more than there is for Christmas). For the Non-Christian Japanese the first visit of the year to a temple, called Hatsumode, is important in brinnging blessings and fortune for the comming year. It seems that some of these Orthodox, go to church only on that day for the cultural reasons and superstition concerning good luck, just supplimenting the temple with an Orthodox Church. I think perhaps more of a stress on our Lord's birth would be more beneficial for them than having a fast free New Years day.

Anyway, I am not disagreeing with you as the culture should be taken into acount but there is a danger of putting it above the Church.

Nicholas (savva)

[Elijah]

I have read similar things to what Savva said reguarding why the Aleuts changed their fasting rules. More specifically I heard that due to the climate and conditions they lived in their diet had to contain much much more fat than we need to survive.

OOD: Hehe...I'll have to remember that line of yours. :mrgreen:

sashaedwardovna : Excellent post. I don't think that it can be said any better than that. It's also nice to see another 17 year old on the forum.

[sashaedwardovna]

thanks! (and hooray for us youngsters! lol, you're right, I don't find many.) I was of course speaking in general. yes, if one is with people who are not familiar with Orthodox practices, and they come right out and offer you something, accept rather than offend. I just wonder though, especially nowadays, what with all the vegans, and vegetarians and whatnot, how many people really get downright offended anymore? jw.

[Elijah]

Sasha: Earlier today while I was lost somewhere inside my mind Isuddenly realized who you are(well 99% sure anyway) Were you at St. Seraphim's Camp last year?

Going back on subject... Yes one would think that people wouldn't be as offened anymore with all the vegans and other such people around but never know... Some people get offended far to easily.