Church gift shop

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Mon 5 July 2004 10:05 am

I agree... if they were created as Icons to be venerated. But a reproduction of an icon which was not created for the purpose of venerating..I think that is different.

In our church only about half of the icons are original, and the more I think about it, probably even less than that. The prints are venerated in the same way as the originally painted icons and there is no distinction between them.

Now of course I believe it is a greater sacrifice and an act of love to paint an icon by hand, with prayer, patience, and time. But for the person venerating the image, it shouldn't matter that the image wasn't made by hand - the image is still there.

Beyond that I think the inner spiritual life of a person and a group of people will manifest themselves in many ways; ways in which "rules" would just create a pharisitical outward appearance of holiness. Let people do according to their conscience.

sue57 · Post by **sue57** » Tue 6 July 2004 10:03 am

Not to keep this thread running forever, but Ebay offers "Save and Protect" rings that the seller says were approved by the ROC to promote the revival of orthodoxy. All well and good. Yesterday, the same seller had a leather belt with the Prayer to the Precious Cross imprinted on the leather. I have to admit, this struck me as reall weird. I know that some monastics wear a belt over their cassocks, but even if that is what this is, it probably shouldn't end up on Ebay. I just see hip Muscovites wearing these with jeans, as a fashion statement! That really creeps me out, but of course, I shouldn't take such a pessimistic view.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... eName=WDVW

Ok, I went back to find the link, which isn't going to work (!), and I saw that the belt was "acquired at an ancient monastery in Novgorod", so maybe it is part of a monk's habit. Btw, I don't mean to condem the seller in any way. I bought a cross from this person, and they may be selling this item in all sincerity.

ania · Post by **ania** » Tue 6 July 2004 2:47 pm

My brother has one of those belts that my dad brought back from Russia. He usually wears it to church. He also has Russian dogtags with the Guardian Angel on it that he sometimes wears in place of a cross. When I was in Russia I bought a "Save & Preserve" ring, but lost it. Now I have a "Lord have mercy on me a sinner" ring, which I bought from the parish bookshop. As far as t-shirts, other stuff w/ crosses, icons on it... I think it's ok to a point, but I'd prefer stuff with just words about Orthodoxy on them.

George · Post by **George** » Tue 6 July 2004 5:02 pm

I wear a ring that says "Most Holy Theotokos save us", which I never remove. Quite a number of people at my Church (ROCOR) have similair rings.

TomS · Post by **TomS** » Tue 6 July 2004 5:39 pm

But the Theotokos CAN'T save you. She can PRAY for you, but SHE can't save you.

Savva24 · Post by **Savva24** » Tue 6 July 2004 6:03 pm

TomS wrote:
But the Theotokos CAN'T save you. She can PRAY for you, but SHE can't save you.

But she certainly CAN save us by her PRAYERS. This is a prayer used in many services of the Church and understood in the right context, it is correct. Of course only Christ can save us in any final sence. But if a fireman can save a child from a buring building than certainly the Theotokos can save us from dangers. St. paul also talks about how he ''saved'' people (though I can't remember where right now). It is like a differece between saved and SAVED I think.

Nicholas (savva)