STOC and ROCANA, an ecclesiology of anarchy

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Suaidan
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Re: STOC and ROCANA, an ecclesiology of anarchy

Post by Suaidan »

Imma stand with the SG's because Bp Lazar was wrong and ... I just won't say my opinion on Bp Lazar

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Re: STOC and ROCANA, an ecclesiology of anarchy

Post by Jean-Serge »

If I am not mistaken, bishop Andronik is the senior bishop of ROCANA (other bishops are Andrei in Australia and Sophrony in Saint Petersburg).

What do you mean by, bishop Andronik has never acknowledged that his parishes went to the Moscow Patriarchate. Which concrete action did you expect from him?

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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Re: STOC and ROCANA, an ecclesiology of anarchy

Post by Jean-Serge »

Suaidan wrote: Sun 25 February 2024 12:51 am

Imma stand with the SG's because Bp Lazar was wrong and ... I just won't say my opinion on Bp Lazar

What is SG?

Priidite, poklonimsja i pripadem ko Hristu.

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Re: STOC and ROCANA, an ecclesiology of anarchy

Post by Suaidan »

Jean-Serge wrote: Sun 25 February 2024 2:41 am
Suaidan wrote: Sun 25 February 2024 12:51 am

Imma stand with the SG's because Bp Lazar was wrong and ... I just won't say my opinion on Bp Lazar

What is SG?

Seraphimo-Gennadites

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

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Re: STOC and ROCANA, an ecclesiology of anarchy

Post by Barbara »

Thanks for the explanation, Davyd97. I'll look at the one of the links later, but now I see about the VA parish. I didn't realize that Holy Assumption parish had gone with Rocana ; I imagined they had stayed on with RTOC all that time.

Does anyone have any idea for what reason the parish, a longstanding TOC one, made what looked like an abrupt switch to MP ?
[I was guessing maybe lack of funds -??]

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Re: STOC and ROCANA, an ecclesiology of anarchy

Post by Davyd97 »

RocaRemnant wrote: Sat 24 February 2024 11:34 pm
Davyd97 wrote: Sat 24 February 2024 11:09 pm
Suaidan wrote: Sat 24 February 2024 10:19 pm

A number of people have expressed this concern. I am not sure. He's not really "independent" in the sense of what that usually means in the Orthosphere; everyone knows who he is and where's he's from. I'm not willing to go that far, but the parishes leaving, that's a little weird.

Therein lays the other issue, he is struggling to justify existing. He co-celebrated plenty of times with the HSIR yet all of a sudden "cyprianism" is an issue yet he didn't feel the need to break communion when the HSIR was still professing cyprianism. On top of all of this, one of the bishops he is in communion with in Russia broke communion with the Bishop in Aus. Add in the parishes leaving for the MP and it is very clear that his communion is struggling to exist more than it should.

I will add that him working with the MP is speculation on my end, but I don't think it should be outright dismissed.

It’s very unfortunate that Agafangel is open about heretics being saved as this has been his position since the 90’s.

“ Jews who did not accept Christ would be saved because they are “God’s chosen people.” In one of his articles in the “Vestnik TOC” (1994, No. 2, p. 30)

Why was he not deposed for this statement? Why would Bishop Andronik stay in communion, and get ordinations from Met Agafangel knowing he already said this. It makes no sense.

As for the case of “parishes leaving for the MP”. Fr Oleg Minorov is the only case I’m aware of and that’s very much so it. Wondering clergy isn’t new to True Orthodoxy nor should it be paraded around but rather admonished. I still wait for you to actually bring information to the table about a crumbling synod and not emotional appeals or pointing fingers.

I have posted about this in this thread. Likewise, I will add this communiqué from the synod of Met Demetrius. One of the issues raised was concerning developments in Serbia, with regard to the presence there of Genuine Orthodoxy and growing impediments. It is known that the GOC-K had a sizeable presence in Serbia until Bishop Akakije ran off to the RTOC to get ordained. Many lay and clergy in Serbia seem to want to come back under the GOC-K

https://www.hotca.org/documents/995-com ... holy-synod

but it’s well known that Agafangel holds on to this as “Orthodox ecclesiology”

Can you provide evidence of this? If you look on his website, you can clearly see him being against the MP.

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Re: STOC and ROCANA, an ecclesiology of anarchy

Post by SavaBeljovic »

Davyd97 wrote: Sun 25 February 2024 10:29 pm
RocaRemnant wrote: Sat 24 February 2024 11:34 pm
Davyd97 wrote: Sat 24 February 2024 11:09 pm

Therein lays the other issue, he is struggling to justify existing. He co-celebrated plenty of times with the HSIR yet all of a sudden "cyprianism" is an issue yet he didn't feel the need to break communion when the HSIR was still professing cyprianism. On top of all of this, one of the bishops he is in communion with in Russia broke communion with the Bishop in Aus. Add in the parishes leaving for the MP and it is very clear that his communion is struggling to exist more than it should.

I will add that him working with the MP is speculation on my end, but I don't think it should be outright dismissed.

It’s very unfortunate that Agafangel is open about heretics being saved as this has been his position since the 90’s.

“ Jews who did not accept Christ would be saved because they are “God’s chosen people.” In one of his articles in the “Vestnik TOC” (1994, No. 2, p. 30)

Why was he not deposed for this statement? Why would Bishop Andronik stay in communion, and get ordinations from Met Agafangel knowing he already said this. It makes no sense.

As for the case of “parishes leaving for the MP”. Fr Oleg Minorov is the only case I’m aware of and that’s very much so it. Wondering clergy isn’t new to True Orthodoxy nor should it be paraded around but rather admonished. I still wait for you to actually bring information to the table about a crumbling synod and not emotional appeals or pointing fingers.

I have posted about this in this thread. Likewise, I will add this communiqué from the synod of Met Demetrius. One of the issues raised was concerning developments in Serbia, with regard to the presence there of Genuine Orthodoxy and growing impediments. It is known that the GOC-K had a sizeable presence in Serbia until Bishop Akakije ran off to the RTOC to get ordained. Many lay and clergy in Serbia seem to want to come back under the GOC-K

https://www.hotca.org/documents/995-com ... holy-synod

but it’s well known that Agafangel holds on to this as “Orthodox ecclesiology”

Can you provide evidence of this? If you look on his website, you can clearly see him being against the MP.

If you read quotes from Abp. Anthony of Geneva, they are far worse than what Met. Agafangel said in 1994. This was also after Met. Vitaly infamous 1984 Epistle where he said the Anathema against Ecumenism only applied to the ROCOR and no one else, and the same year they went into communion with the HSiR who had ecclesiology, that as Vladyka Gregory (Grabbe) put it, "crypto-Ecumenis(t)".

The old ROCOR was a mess and sometimes things people did that they should've been deposed for, they didn't.

“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."

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