STOC and ROCANA, an ecclesiology of anarchy

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Suaidan
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Re: STOC and ROCANA, an ecclesiology of anarchy

Post by Suaidan »

A number of people have expressed this concern. I am not sure. He's not really "independent" in the sense of what that usually means in the Orthosphere; everyone knows who he is and where's he's from. I'm not willing to go that far, but the parishes leaving, that's a little weird.

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

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RocaRemnant
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Re: STOC and ROCANA, an ecclesiology of anarchy

Post by RocaRemnant »

Davyd97 wrote: Sat 24 February 2024 9:14 pm

Bishop Andronik is a strange figure. He hasn't formed a synod and is instead an "independent" bishop. Two of his parishes including his cathedral in Ottawa went to the MP and Bishop Andronik has never acknowledged this. I personally think he is doing something with the MP.

Hefty claims with no sources fall flat on their faces. The Synod has acknowledged this, if you actually called the synod you’d find out. Not trying to put you on blast but there are many times where you have to actually talk to a hierarch to find out what’s going on. Regarding the first claim, he has. He left on a legitimate basis unless someone intends on relegating this to finger pointing then we can do this all day long. :D

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Re: STOC and ROCANA, an ecclesiology of anarchy

Post by Suaidan »

I agree he left on a legitimate basis. But I have heard the accusation before. But as far as I am concerned, without hard proof, Abp Andronik is just fine as a Bishop and seems to be running things as well as he can in the circumstances.

Fr Joseph Suaidan (Suaiden, same guy)

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Davyd97
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Re: STOC and ROCANA, an ecclesiology of anarchy

Post by Davyd97 »

Suaidan wrote: Sat 24 February 2024 10:19 pm

A number of people have expressed this concern. I am not sure. He's not really "independent" in the sense of what that usually means in the Orthosphere; everyone knows who he is and where's he's from. I'm not willing to go that far, but the parishes leaving, that's a little weird.

Therein lays the other issue, he is struggling to justify existing. He co-celebrated plenty of times with the HSIR yet all of a sudden "cyprianism" is an issue yet he didn't feel the need to break communion when the HSIR was still professing cyprianism. On top of all of this, one of the bishops he is in communion with in Russia broke communion with the Bishop in Aus. Add in the parishes leaving for the MP and it is very clear that his communion is struggling to exist more than it should.

I will add that him working with the MP is speculation on my end, but I don't think it should be outright dismissed.

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Re: STOC and ROCANA, an ecclesiology of anarchy

Post by Barbara »

Which was the OTHER parish besides the St Xenia Church in Kanata ? I don't think I had heard about that one.

Abp Sofrony of St Petersburg was the bishop who split off, of course. Are there other Russian bishops in ROCANA, then, from what Davyd97 said ? Just want to catch up.

There HAS been speculation about Abp Andronik going to the MP for quite some years now. Is there any evidence for this that has occurred since I've been away, i.e. while the Cafe was out of commission ?

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Re: STOC and ROCANA, an ecclesiology of anarchy

Post by Davyd97 »

Barbara wrote: Sat 24 February 2024 11:16 pm

Which was the OTHER parish besides the St Xenia Church in Kanata ? I don't think I had heard about that one.

Abp Sofrony of St Petersburg was the bishop who split off, of course. Are there other Russian bishops in ROCANA, then, from what someone said ? Just want to catch up.

There HAS been speculation about Abp Andronik going to the MP for quite some years now. Is there any evidence for this that has occurred since I've been away, i.e. while the Cafe was out of commission ?

Bishop Sofrony broke communion with Bishop Irenaeus. Bishop Irenaeus is now in communion with HOCNA
https://vishegorod.ru/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=44

The other parish is in Virginia. The parishes leaving happened when the cafe was out of commission. I would say the evidence of abp andronik joining the MP is the fact two of his parishes have gone to the MP. That seems very shady

https://orthochristian.com/136817.html# ... 20Diocese.

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RocaRemnant
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Re: STOC and ROCANA, an ecclesiology of anarchy

Post by RocaRemnant »

Davyd97 wrote: Sat 24 February 2024 11:09 pm
Suaidan wrote: Sat 24 February 2024 10:19 pm

A number of people have expressed this concern. I am not sure. He's not really "independent" in the sense of what that usually means in the Orthosphere; everyone knows who he is and where's he's from. I'm not willing to go that far, but the parishes leaving, that's a little weird.

Therein lays the other issue, he is struggling to justify existing. He co-celebrated plenty of times with the HSIR yet all of a sudden "cyprianism" is an issue yet he didn't feel the need to break communion when the HSIR was still professing cyprianism. On top of all of this, one of the bishops he is in communion with in Russia broke communion with the Bishop in Aus. Add in the parishes leaving for the MP and it is very clear that his communion is struggling to exist more than it should.

I will add that him working with the MP is speculation on my end, but I don't think it should be outright dismissed.

It’s very unfortunate that Agafangel is open about heretics being saved as this has been his position since the 90’s.

“ Jews who did not accept Christ would be saved because they are “God’s chosen people.” In one of his articles in the “Vestnik TOC” (1994, No. 2, p. 30)

The consecration of Bishop Roman of Haifa is illegitimate considering the status of Irenieos who joined ROCOR A did a 180° turn and submitted himself the Pat. Theophilos. The recognition of the SG catacomb group was another tipping point for Vl. Andronik. As for Vl. Stefan and Andrei, they left the RTOC for being sectarian and essentially acting like a political party but again I can point fingers all day long and this isn’t new with Agafangel’s synod (acceptance of runaway clergy like Bishop Anastasiy (Surzhik) from ROCiE-V, a clear as day violation of the 34th apostolic canon or stealing parishes like the ones in the Philippines that were under Met. John LoBue).

As for the case of “parishes leaving for the MP”. Fr Oleg Minorov is the only case I’m aware of and that’s very much so it. Wondering clergy isn’t new to True Orthodoxy nor should it be paraded around but rather admonished. I still wait for you to actually bring information to the table about a crumbling synod and not emotional appeals or pointing fingers.

Ps. Vl. Andronik is very open about Cyprianism dying out with the HSiR and the death of Met. Cyprian but it’s well known that Agafangel holds on to this as “Orthodox ecclesiology”

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