For All Those Who Doubt the MP Still Supports Communism

drewmeister2 · Post by **drewmeister2** » Mon 17 September 2007 11:04 pm

Check out this link and notice all the Communist memorabilia in the background (this is at an MP Cathedral in the US): http://www.saintandrewscathedral.org/im ... 00201a.JPG

Helen · Post by **Helen** » Tue 18 September 2007 7:36 am

Sorry drewmeister.... but I gotta say it....

The memorabilia is not something I would like to see in my church and I would probably protest if it ever did appear. But if you 'read behind the lines' you might reconsider what you now think is so scandalous. Just think about it - these men fought in the war and they are proud of their achievements. And so they should be. They fought and defended their country which was under attack - communist or not. You would be proud too. I doubt the memorabilia and medals are being displayed to promote communism - perhaps if you could read Russian you might not have jumped the gun. One of the main posters says: "The motherland is calling you". This would have been used to promote enlistment during WW2. There is also the monarchical crest to the left - does this mean that the "MP stills supports" the monarchy? Since you've already started - you be the judge. One thing I do know from personal experience - having been to Russia and being in close contact with a great many Russians of all sorts (Russians living in Russia, recent emigres, not-so-recent-emigres, 2nd/3rd/4th generation Russians, etc), that the majority of the clergy and laity do not support communism. And I seriously doubt these people are supporters of communism. They were simply displaying memorabilia from a war that they fought in.

I find it really surprising that people make judgments about the clergy and laity of the MP while having no real knowledge of the Russian situation. I wish you knew a bit more about the real situation - maybe then you would be a bit more lenient with your judgements.

TomS · Post by **TomS** » Tue 18 September 2007 10:26 am

Yep, Helen is dead on about this.

These are simply brave men who are proud of the service they provided to their mother country.

drewmeister2 · Post by **drewmeister2** » Tue 18 September 2007 2:10 pm

Thanks for the comments. A few points though. You would never see this in any Catacomb Church or in the old days of ROCOR (or at least not at parishes that believed that the MP was truly evil along with the Soviet government). And secondly, I could never be proud of fighting for a nation that killed millions of Orthodox Christians. Put in another way, would you be proud if you were a Nazi and had fought for their godless regime? I wouldn't, so if I had fought for a government which ruthlessly slaughtered people and was completely atheist (and still is) I'm not so sure I could be proud of that. I can see what you mean about patriotism, that in and of itself isn't bad, but when it is for an inherently evil government, I couldn't participate in that.

If it was ok to fight for the Soviets according to Orthodoxy, then that would mean the Catacombniks died in vain, as they could have just been like everyone else and joined the military to fight for the Soviet government and not worried about going against Orthodox teachings. But because they knew the Soviet government was evil, and against Orthodox teachings, they refused to fight and became martyrs (I'm not saying here that you believe that the Catacombniks died in vain, I'm sure you don't really believe that, but that logic seems to follow from what you've said).

BTW, I'm also not saying that fighting against Nazism is bad, I agree it is good and am glad they didn't take control of Russia, however, when the thing you are trying to defend is worse than Nazism I don't see the point then.

TomS · Post by **TomS** » Tue 18 September 2007 4:51 pm

They were fighting for "Mother Russia"

They were fighting to save themselves and theirr wives and children from being raped or killed by the advancing Nazis.

Sometimes you have no choice but to choose the lesser of 2 evils.

Грешник · Post by **Грешник** » Tue 18 September 2007 8:50 pm

Let's turn the tables, let's look at America's history...

Because we do not agree with this war, or Korea, or Vietnam.. does that mean that we should not support our country or its military?

Life is not always black and white.

Liudmilla · Post by **Liudmilla** » Wed 19 September 2007 7:56 am

Unfortunately to many young people it is black and white, they have not had to make the hard choices in their lives where the choices are neither black or white, but somewhere in the murky zone of uncertainty.

Milla