Why traditionalists Baptize heretics, Split from The OCA

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Daniel
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Why traditionalists Baptize heretics, Split from The OCA

Post by Daniel »

Since this thread is starting to get into the OCA's practices on receiving converts, I thought I would post a link to some Canons Dealing with Baptism.

I want to point out Canon 95 from the 6th Ecumenical Council.

Canon 95 of the Holy and Sixth Ecumenical Council
Affirmed and Upheld by the Sixth Ecumenical Council

As for heretics who convert to Orthodoxy and join the portion of the saved, we receive them in accordance with the following procedure and custom: We receive Arians, and Macedonians, and Novatians who call themselves Catharoi and Aristeroi, and Tessareskaidekatitae otherwise known as Tetraditae, and Apollinarists, when they submit written statements, and anathematize every heresy that does not believe as the holy, catholic, and Apostolic Church of God believes, and are first sealed, i.e. chrismated, with holy Myron on the forehead, and the eyes, and the nose, and the mouth, and the ears; and in sealing them we say: "Seal of the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Concerning the Paulianists, however, who subsequently took refuge in the catholic Church, a definition has been promulgated that they be rebaptized without fail. Eunomians who are baptized with one immersion, and Montanists who in this [City] are called Phrygians, and Sabellians who believe in the son-fatherhood [of Christ], and who do other evil things as well; and all other heresies (for there are many hereabout, especially those hailing from the region of the Galatians), all of them that wish to join Orthodoxy we receive as pagans. And on the first day we make them Christians; on the second, catechumens. Then on the third day we exorcise them with the threefold blowing into their face and ears. And then we catechize them, and oblige them to spend sufficient time in the church and to listen to the Scriptures. And then we baptize them. And likewise Manichaeans, and Valentinians, and Marcionites, and those from similar heresies.

Nestorians are required to make written statements, and to anathematize their heresy and Nestorios, Eutyches and Dioscoros and Severos, and the rest of the leaders of such heresies, as well as those who entertain their beliefs, and all the aforementioned heresies; and thus they may partake of Holy Communion.

How does the OCA's practice fit into this canon?

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Seraphim Reeves
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Post by Seraphim Reeves »

Nevski,

I followed the link you offered, and read the article by Archmandrite Ambrosius.

His Grace frequently refers to the following article, among other sources, as a means of explaining the practice and views of the OCA. The reference to St. Basil is most important in it. I expect few here will find the article satisfactory, but I think it nevertheless affords some needed clarity to this discussion, and with it, I am done with this particular exchange:

It is profoundly unsatisfactory, because it mixes a great deal of truth (discussion of long standing Russian practice, though with a great deal of ommission regarding Greek practice, and the practice of the early Church) with some very subtle, poisonous error.

From the article...

Each of the Orthodox Church’s mysteries has a dogmatic side. Forms may change and the canons may be amended, but their dogmatic aspects remains immutable, For example, the forms of the Divine Liturgy changed during the course of centuries, but the dogmatic essence of the Divine Liturgy remained and remains without change namely, that under the appearance of bread and wine we receive the True Body and Blood of Christ, which change takes place through the sacred action of the bishop or the priest.

Satisfactory explanation so far (though as will be seen, non-sequitor).

Thus, in the mystery of baptism its dogmatic foundation, its substance is that it is performed by triple immersion (or by its equivalent) pronouncing each of the Persons of the Divine Trinity, individually, and then — in the non-repetition of this mystery, since it was the spiritual birth of the Christian into eternal life in Christ. Just as our birth in the flesh occurs only once, so does our spiritual birth occurs only once in the mystery of baptism. This non-repetition of valid baptism, as a dogma, is sealed for all times in the Symbol of Faith: "I believe . . . in one Baptism." Even if the baptism was performed in a non-Orthodox church, but in the same form as it is performed among the Orthodox, it is accepted, according to the canons of the Ecumenical Councils. The Blessed Augustine wrote that the sacrament of baptism was instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and even the perversion (perversitas) of the heretics does not deprive that sacrament of its veracity and validity. Thus it follows that re-baptism violates the dogmatic principle of the non-repetition of baptism.

(emphasis in the above is mine)

Some observations.

1) This manifestly contradicts what both you, and apparently (from your quotation) what bishop Tikhon said - it is a clear affirmation of the remission of sins/rebirth in grace being present in heterodox baptisms. The good Archmandrite would be well advised to read St.Cyprian, re-read the Canons of St.Basil (which outright say in the first canon that the communication of the Holy Spirit does not exist in schisms), and the Apostolic Canons which teach exactly the opposite of what he's teaching on this subject. For while they do teach that repeating a genuine Baptism is blasphey, they also teach...

Canon XLVI.

We ordain that a bishop, or presbyter, who has admitted the baptism or sacrifice of heretics, be deposed. For what concord hath Christ with Belial, or what part hath a believer with an infidel?

Even the canon reflecting the doctrine that repetition of a true baptism is sacreligious, is only half referenced, so to speak, in his form of thought. For example, here would be the form of the canon if it was agreeable to the Archmandrite's way of thinking...

Canon XLVII.

Let a bishop or presbyter who shall baptize again one who has rightly received baptism, ... be deposed, as despising the cross and death of the Lord...

Now, if that's all it said, he might have a point (though the previous canon would also have to evaporate, as would any other testimony on this topic.) However, this is the canon in full...

Canon XLVII.

Let a bishop or presbyter who shall baptize again one who has rightly received baptism, or who shall not baptize one who has been polluted by the ungodly, be deposed, as despising the cross and death of the Lord, and not making a distinction between the true priests and the false.

(btw., to be clear, I am not imply at all that the Archmandrite quoted this passage incompletly - rather, I am saying quite unequivocally, that his teaching that repeating a "true baptism" is sacreligious, while itself correct, cannot be applied to heterodox baptisms.)

2) It does precisely why I warned about previously - in supporting a false idea about sacramental economy (in reality, this is not economy at all!), it is in fact, round aboutly (and rather back-handedly) outright condemning the practice of receiving converts from heterodoxy via exactitude.

There is no "economy" in accepting a genuine Baptism. This is an abuse of terminology, and confirms precisely what others (and myself) have been saying in this forum.

But of course, I'm sure you will inform us that the above is not an "official statement" of the OCA... :) This reminds me of how Papists, to get around some of the more outrageous activities and teachings of some of their Popes, will say "well, it wasn't ex cathedra". Organically, ontologically, but not "officially" (whatever this means), a heretic.

Seraphim

Nevski
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Post by Nevski »

seraphim reeves wrote:

Nevski,

I followed the link you offered, and read the article by Archmandrite Ambrosius.(snip)

As you know, canonical and patristic issues, just like scriptural ones, are difficult. I suggest you join the Indiana List and take the matter up with His Grace, as the article was posted on "his" web site. I'm sure you'll find it illuminating. As for me, like I said before, I'm through with this particular exchange.

Cheers

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Post by Anastasios »

Oh my gosh, it is obvious you did not read the whole article!! He takes on Cyprian and clearly shows that the Church never accepted Cyprian's teaching as a whole in Part 1 of the work!

anastasios

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LatinTrad
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Post by LatinTrad »

anastasios wrote:

Oh my gosh, it is obvious you did not read the whole article!! He takes on Cyprian and clearly shows that the Church never accepted Cyprian's teaching as a whole in Part 1 of the work!

anastasios

Exactly, Dustin.

Seraphim, this illustrates the point I mentioned last week about the Church being our guide in reading the Fathers. Fathers erred at times. The Church of Christ does not err in its solemn teaching on Faith and Morals.

St. Cyprian's views on this issue were strenuously resisted by the Apostolic See of Rome.

LatinTrad

LatinTrad
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Re: Canons Dealing with Baptism

Post by LatinTrad »

Daniel wrote:

.

Canon 95 of the Holy and Sixth Ecumenical Council
Affirmed and Upheld by the Sixth Ecumenical Council

Nestorians are required to make written statements, and to anathematize their heresy and Nestorios, Eutyches and Dioscoros and Severos, and the rest of the leaders of such heresies, as well as those who entertain their beliefs, and all the aforementioned heresies; and thus they may partake of Holy Communion.

Looks like there can be valid baptism outside the Church. Hey, isn't it funny how they mention Eutyches and Dioscoros under "Nestorians?" Looks like the Holy Council is affirming that certain groups of heretics had preserved valid baptism, and were therefore not required to be re-baptized.

Kind of like when all you guys become Catholic, we won't have to re-baptize y'all. :P

In Christ,

LatinTrad

Daniel
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Re: Canons Dealing with Baptism

Post by Daniel »

LatinTrad wrote:

Kind of like when all you guys become Catholic, we won't have to re-baptize y'all. :P

LatinTrad,
What is the Latin form of baptism now-a-days anyway?

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