Questions about Seminary Schools?

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

anastasios,

I love you too (for the record).

[Andreas]

Much thanks to each of you. You all helped me a great deal.

[Christopher]

Hey folks, I had at one time considered being a priest / theology professor and did a bunch of research on the subject. I had attended Hellenic College my freshman year and am currently in grad school-- but not for theology. Here are a couple of thoughts to consider:

If you want to be a priest, check with your jurisdiction to see the specific requirements and which schools you should attend. In the United States, an M. Div. (Master of Divinity) or Lic. Th. (Licenciate of Theology-- granted in Europe) is the academic standard and is usually 3/4 years of graduate study. Note that an M. Div. is a "professional" degree for persons intending to serve in a professional capacity within the church.

If you want to be a professor of theology, a Ph.D. is the academic standard. You will usually need the following to be admitted to an accredited Ph.D. program in the United States:
1) A bachelor degree from an ACCREDITED university
2) A masters degree relating to your intended area of study. Most folks going for the Ph.D. do not get the M.Div-- they go for the M.T.S (Master of Theological Studies) which is normally two years of graduate study.
3) Usually, you will need to know two classical languages such as greek, hebrew, latin, aramaic, church slavonic etc depending on your concentration and have a reading knowledge of either French or German-- most modern theological scholarly works are written in French or German. In orthodoxy-- go for French.

There is also a Th.D. (Doctor of Theology) in some divinity schools across the U.S. but this will limit your choice of profession-- usually to a seminary. Again, the academic standard is the Ph.D.

Also, make sure ALL of your degrees are from an ACCREDITED university. I cannot stress this enough. In the academic world, a degree isn't worth a hill of beans if it is not from an accredited university. Accreditations are from regional associations-- check with the university. Some of the seminaries in the U.S. are not accredited and this is fine if your intention is only to be a priest.

You also may want to consider going abroad at the doctoral level although in the U.S., there is an academic prejudice against Ph.D's in theology/religion granted in other countries. However, you can be assured that any accredited Ph.D. granted in the U.S. in theology will not be at an orthodox school. The D.Min. (Doctor of Ministries) is a doctoral level professional degree usually sought by practicing clergy-- it is not a teaching degree. The D.D. (Doctor of Divinity) is granted now usually as an honorary degree. Also, there is an M.Th. (Master of Theology) but this is intended for folks who have an M.Div. and want to do one extra year of academic study. It is not intended for folks who want to pursue education at the doctoral level.

As for bachelor degrees, very few schools offer a B.Div. (Bachelor of Divinity) or B.Th. (Bachelor of Theology) and this degree will not get you anywhere in orthodoxy in the U.S. Go for a B.A. in a focus that you intend to do graduate studies in such as history, language, etc. Any degree in "religious studies" is usually a keyword in secular universities denoting "world religions." You won't find much orthodoxy here.

As for grades, people might dispute this one, but a master's program at seminaries in the U.S. is usually not that difficult to get into. Show your interest in the church on your application and get an excellent letter of recommendation from a priest (bishop is better) and you've got a good shot.

One more thing, if you have ANY doubts about your pursuing a career in the clergy or academics, get a bachelor's degree in something that will make you more easily employable such as business or engineering. Theological education does not start until the graduate level.

I hope this helps,
Chris

[Justin Kissel]

Andreas,

I'm a little late in coming to the conversation, but I did nonetheless want to add my 2 cents in. I've not attended an Orthodox seminary (only a Protestant Bible College), but I have thought a good deal about the priesthood and issues related to it, so I hope you won't mind if I ramble a bit

I think that someone desiring to be in the clergy desires a very good thing (cf 1 Tim. 3:1). However, the desire itself is not always good. It's sort of like hesychia: it's very good, but it's not for everyone, and we can mislead ourselves or pursue such things with improper intentions. Of course, we most times don't realise that we are doing something improper--we're normally sincere and mean well. That said, I think the foundation for entering the priesthood would be to be under a Priest who can discern what would be best for you.

I suggest reading all the literature on the priesthood that you can, and reading it often. There are a number of texts from the Church Fathers available online which you could read, including the 2nd Oration of St. Gregory the Theologian, The Book of Pastoral Rule by St. Gregory the Great, the Three Books on the Duties of the Clergy by St. Ambrose, and the Treatise on the Priesthood by St. John Chrysostom. All of these are good texts to read even if you aren't going to become a priest (especially, IMO, the one by St. Ambrose), but for someone considering the priesthood they can be a bit of an eye-opener in more ways than one.

There are also more modern books that deal with the issue, of course, including certain material by St. John of Kronstadt, and even some of the books of Met. Hierotheos (his book Orthodox Psychotherapy, for instance, seems somewhat directed towards usage by clergy within their ministry--though it can be read and used by anyone of course).

Whatever you do, if you are serious about being a priest, make sure you start getting serious now. You might be suprised how many canons there are dealing with who can and cannot be a priest, and some things that are considered "normal" here in America are--according to a strict following of the canons at least--grounds for not being a priest. Most times bishops don't strictly use the canons today, but the principle remains: one should lead a holy life if they are even remotely considering the priesthood.

If the priesthood in particular is what you're after, you also have the option (in some "jurisdictions," at least) to not attend seminary but simply learn from a priest. I know ROCOR allows this type of "training," though I'm not sure about other jurisdictions. If seminaries just don't seem like an option for whatever reason(s), you might at least want to keep this in mind.

I agree with what the other fellows said about taking history or something like that at a regular college, as it would provide a wider foundation upon which to build. If I might offer another possible major though, if it's of any interest to you you might think about Rhetoric/Communication. This would be of benefit whether you were a priest or a teacher--perhaps of more benefit than one might realise (the Fathers speak of the need for being able to speak well). Also, check out what the local colleges have, you might find something you wouldn't expect, but which is really interesting. The University of Pennsylvania, for instance, has a really cool major called "Mediterranean Studies," which is basically Greek, Roman, and Near Eastern history, culture, and language all wrapped into one. If you're looking for a wide foundation, that's about as wide as you can get!

Having more traditionalist tendencies, I would suggest avoiding liberal schools (including liberal Orthodox schools) at all cost. If it comes to attending a liberal school or learning from a knowledgable priest, I think the priest would be a much better option. I know that suggestion will probably raise some protests, but I believe it's for the best. The fact is, most people believe what they are taught in school, and it's a very hard, long process to unlearn something at a later time that you learn at school.

Whatever the case may be, I hope you do well in the path which God leads you on.

EDIT--I hope I will be forgiven for some of the imprecise or downright strange phrases I used in this post, such as "If the priesthood in particular is what you're after"... I only meant that if that's what you had before yourself as a spiritual path God was leading you on... saying "what you're after" makes it sound more like a "cool job" or something though.

[Andreas]

Thanks a lot for the kind words and information. You guys really gave me a lot to think about.

[PFC Nektarios]

My ROCOR Spritiual Father at Holy Trinity, says that you can go to Holy Trinity Seminary striaght out of High School, but you will be there for 5 years. Thats where I want to go to Seminary.

Question: If you go to Mt. Athos, and become a monk there, with no degree from a college either in america or outside of the US or Europe, and you decided that you want to become a Hieromonk, how does that work if your are already tonsured a monk and want to become a priest?
Do they just do Monastery training and teaching and ordaine you after the proper amount of time?

In Christ
Nektarios

[bogoliubtsy]

Question: If you go to Mt. Athos, and become a monk there, with no degree from a college either in america or outside of the US or Europe, and you decided that you want to become a Hieromonk, how does that work
Nektarios

I think you have to ask God's permission first.