Seraphim,
Basil Canon 13
Our fathers did not think that killing in war was murder; yet I think it advisable for such as have been guilty of it to forbear communion three years.
So killing in war would not be an impediment to ordination.
anastasios
Disclaimer: Many older posts were made before my baptism and thus may not reflect an Orthodox point of view.
Please do not message me with questions about the forum or moderation requests. Jonathan Gress (jgress) will be able to assist you.
Please note that I do not subscribe to "Old Calendar Ecumenism" and believe that only the Synod of Archbishop Kallinikos is the canonical GOC of Greece. I do believe, however, that we can break down barriers and misunderstandings through prayer and discussion on forums such as this one.
Anastasios,
A few questions on this if you don't mind. You probably have some good answers to this since you're at seminary currently.
Why forego Holy Communion for 3 years? Why not 5 or 10? Is this in the canons?
Say an American Orthodox Christian is in a batallion with the Marines or the Army in Iraq (or 35 years ago in Vietnam) and some artillery shells from his unit killed some combatants. He did not necessarily fire the artillery, but is part of the unit that did. Is he still "guilty" of the death of an opponent in war? Many (if not most) war deaths are not as clear-cut as "I fired the rifle and the bullet killed my enemy."
War is hell, but I have a hard time "punishing" soldiers who are doing what they are told. Yes, you can argue that no one forced them into the military especially in these times of no draft, but at 18 years old, many young men are not known for their wisdom.
Gregory,
Any killing of another person--whether through self-defense, war, or malice, is a sin, because it affects our relationship with God.
As Saint Basil pointed out, though, the consensus of the father is that killing in war is not murder. It's still wrong though (a necessary evil) and as such the person should forgoe communion for a time in order to have a chance to rectify the relationship with God. And of course there is a hierarchy of guilt: self defense, then wartime killing, then involuntary murder as a result of say driving drunk, and then a crime of passion, and then a premeditated act. Each level requires more penance.
You asked if Basil's canon was "in the canons." Yes, because Basil's canons are part of "the canons." However, in Basil's time penances were much more stringent. Nowadays the most I have ever heard of a priest giving a penitent to abstain from communion is 1 year--and this was from a monkpriest on Athos.
You also asked about artillery, etc. This is a very difficult question to ask, and one not really envisioned in the canons. My personal opinion is if you are in the battle helping the war you are guilty of the killing. Again, because you are just "following orders" you are not murdering and this is not an impediment to ordination. Still, the reality is that despite the fact that subjectively this is a "war situation" you are still taking a life (just like if someone broke into my house and I killed them, it would not be murder but it would still cause harm to my relationship with God and I would need to repent).
I'd just like to make it clear that I support armed forces and I love our military; what I am saying comes out of a basic understanding that sometimes in life we have to do something that is objectively wrong (i.e. killing) for the greater good. Of course, the only entity competant to order us to do this is the state; if we tried out vigilante justice it would be murder. Thus, participation in the armed forces remains an honorable thing for an Orthodox Christian to do.
anastasios
Disclaimer: Many older posts were made before my baptism and thus may not reflect an Orthodox point of view.
Please do not message me with questions about the forum or moderation requests. Jonathan Gress (jgress) will be able to assist you.
Please note that I do not subscribe to "Old Calendar Ecumenism" and believe that only the Synod of Archbishop Kallinikos is the canonical GOC of Greece. I do believe, however, that we can break down barriers and misunderstandings through prayer and discussion on forums such as this one.
Forgive me, my understanding is that one enters a monastery with the intention of undertaking a difficult pathway towards one's salvation, i.e. being a monk - with all that may entail.
If the community has need of a priest and a monk is thought to be suitable then that will be his 'podvig' or struggle, providing the bishops concurs.
Orthodox monks do not have the structure found in western monastic communities, where you have choir-monks (usually ordained) and lay-brothers (non-ordained); with the latter acting more as servants to the community.
Originally, monastic communities would only have sufficient priest-monks to ensure a full round of Services.
Stephen is correct.
Disclaimer: Many older posts were made before my baptism and thus may not reflect an Orthodox point of view.
Please do not message me with questions about the forum or moderation requests. Jonathan Gress (jgress) will be able to assist you.
Please note that I do not subscribe to "Old Calendar Ecumenism" and believe that only the Synod of Archbishop Kallinikos is the canonical GOC of Greece. I do believe, however, that we can break down barriers and misunderstandings through prayer and discussion on forums such as this one.