Russian Orthodox churches may unite soon

bogoliubtsy · Post by **bogoliubtsy** » Wed 19 May 2004 11:55 am

OrthodoxyOrDeath wrote:
Saint John of San Francisco characterized the signs of the end of the world: "There will be a mass falling away from faith, moreover many bishops will betray faith justifying themselves by pointing at the splendid state of the Church. People will be disposed to search for compromise. A forthright confession of faith will disappear. People will excel in justifying their fall, and tender evil will contribute to such general disposition, and people will become accustomed to apostasy and to sweetness of compromise and sin." (Discourse on the Terrible Judgment)

These are the days!

Was this before or after he commemorated the Patriarch of Moscow during Liturgy?

OrthodoxyOrDeath · Post by **OrthodoxyOrDeath** » Wed 19 May 2004 12:47 pm

To qoute the ROCOR's own Fr. John Whiteford...

Bishop Tikhon states that St. John commemorated the names of
both the Moscow Patriarch and the 1st hierarch of the ROCA when
in Shanghai. Mrs. Anastasia Titov, who was there and worked for
St. John, has told me in no uncertain terms that "this is a lie".

But we do know that St. John of San Franscisco commemorated our bishops (GOC) in our churches who declared very clearly that the MP and the rest of the ecumenists were cut off.

If you honestly made your comment about the commemoration of the communist patriarch as an important "fact", then you should now, if you are honest, acknowledge the same importance when it works against your position.

bogoliubtsy · Post by **bogoliubtsy** » Wed 19 May 2004 1:21 pm

I'm not arguing. I'm through with arguing here.
I could retort with: "Many people say he did commemorate the Patriarch", etc...and give my list of names. I could ask for proof that St. John comemmorated your bishops. I could say that things were different in the 60's. How knows?! Today is today. The Moscow Patriarchate is not enslaved. Who would be enslaving it? It has no atheistic power to submit to!

As for you and your synod. Quite frankly, (and here comes the ad hominem which i'm fully prepared to be banned for): Your posts reveal a sick and tormented individual with a religious illness. You are a religiopath, or perhaps a kind of "religious" sadist. The way you speak of other churches falling into "heresy" seems tinged with a certain amount of pleasure in even mentioning such things. You derive satisfaction from what you perceive to be the "fall" of others...and quite frankly, it's revolting.

I imagine being in your schismatic "last bastion of truth" with probably about 75 members(oh, we knew the flock would be small!!) in the United States(do the old greek ladies who make up half the churches even know what your 'position' is?) makes each member somewhat of a representative of your jurisdiction. Is your attitude a proper representation of your synod? If your attitude is representative of your jurisdiction, then there is absolutely no question in my mind that your synod has without doubt left the Orthodox Church. Does hiding behind the childish moniker "Orthodox or Death" make it easier to act like such a vile fool all the time? You have a sickness.

Waldemar · Post by **Waldemar** » Wed 19 May 2004 1:30 pm

More from St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco:

“Shake away the sleep of despondency, O sons of Russia! Behold the glory of her suffering and be purified; wash yourselves from your sins! Be strengthened in the Orthodox Faith, so as to be worthy to dwell in the dwelling of the Lord and to settle on His holy mountain! Leap up, leap up, arise, O Russia, you who from the Lord's hands have drunk the cup of His wrath! When your suffering shall have ended, your righteousness shall go with you and the glory of the Lord shall accompany you. The peoples shall come to your light, and kings to the shining which shall rise upon you. Then Lift up your eyes and see: behold your children come to you from the West and the North and the Sea and the East, blessing you in Christ forever. Amen”

ania · Post by **ania** » Wed 19 May 2004 2:27 pm

<<Sigh>> St. John, even if he himself did not commemorate the Pat of Moscow, he did preside over services that did. As I've stated many times before, there are church documents that prove it. For example, the Anathema (how people love to use that word here) that was used from 1945 up to 1948 while St. John was in Shanghai commemorated both the Patriarch & Met Anastasi. He also concelebrated with Bsp. Victor, who was the MP bishop of China.

Justin Kissel · Post by **Justin Kissel** » Wed 19 May 2004 2:31 pm

Bogo,

Taking someone to task for their approach or perceived mindset, or pointing out flaws in a Church, is one thing, but I think you've gone over the line here. There's no need to blow up, so to speak.

bogoliubtsy · Post by **bogoliubtsy** » Wed 19 May 2004 2:40 pm

I admitted in my post that it was going to be an ad hominem attack.

However, what is the difference really between what I said and what the nameless "OOD" makes a daily habit of saying? I attacked the personal "traits" of a board member who has an illness. He attacks members of the Orthodox Church. The ones he attacks just happen to have nothing to do with this forum. - i.e. Every Patriarchate and every jurisdiction in the Orthodox World, exlcuding his own sect which, after it dies out like the dead branch it is, will not even be worthy of a footnote in the annals of Orthodox history.