Russian Orthodox churches may unite soon

[Justin Kissel]

Forgive me--perhaps I felt emotionally attached since my wife and I are going to shortly join ourselves to that "dead branch" In any event, if you really think that OOD's behavior is bad, wouldn't it be more consistent to act in a different way? Doesn't emulating him sort of cut the legs out from under the argument you are making?

For my own part, I've always considered OOD to be blunt but civil. I thought that even when I was one of those that was getting the blunt edge of his words (when I was, like you, more of a moderate ROCORite--and one with a Cyprianesque ecclesiology). I remember unjustly attacking OOD one time, and he was very polite and tried to resolve the problem in a civil way. I don't think OOD can be cast in the caricatured type that you are giving. And your too good for ad hominems and harsh diatribes, so please stop before I have to change my opinion of you!

[bogoliubtsy]

Justin,

Perhaps "Orthodoxy or Death's" illness is contagious.

[хорист]

From a bio of Metr. Philaret (on Nicholas' blog):

"There are now many attacks on the Church Abroad. Not one Church is reviled as much today. And the servers of other Churches are not reviled as much as the servants of the Church Abroad. What does this mean? This is the most reliable sign that our Church stands in the truth, and therefore every lie, every unrighteousness has taken up arms against her in war. She stands in the truth and preaches this truth, announces it and defends it; hence all these attacks on her."

Hmmm...

[bogoliubtsy]

Well, if the number of attacks is your basis for truth...it looks as if "World Orthodoxy" is standing fast in the Truth, at least in this little corner of the virtual world.

[Seraphim Reeves]

Peter,

However, what is the difference really between what I said and what the nameless "OOD" makes a daily habit of saying? I attacked the personal "traits" of a board member who has an illness. He attacks members of the Orthodox Church. The ones he attacks just happen to have nothing to do with this forum. - i.e. Every Patriarchate and every jurisdiction in the Orthodox World, exlcuding his own sect which, after it dies out like the dead branch it is, will not even be worthy of a footnote in the annals of Orthodox history.

Tell me that the calendar change was not only canonically performed, but also that it does not contravene any of the Church's previous canons on this subject (they're two slightly different things.)

Tell me that what you call the "Orthodox world" is not led by heirarchs who regularly engage in activities worthy of deposition?

Tell me that what you call the "Orthodox world" is not directly or indirectly involved in the heresy of ecumenism - that it does not maintain communion with an archpastoral see (EP) that has "officially" lifted the Church's anathemas against papism? Or that the world's so called "canonical churches" are not in communion with a local church (Antioch) that not only recognizes the ecclessial reality and mysteries of the "Non-Chalcedonians" (NC), but has already established material (if not administrative) communion with such (canonical exchanges of clergy, surrendering of flocks to NC clergy for the solemnization of marriages and other liturgical services, etc)?

Tell me that the MP has extracted itself from the pan-heresy of ecumenism and it's organs (WCC, and other more local congesses), and has condemned Sergianism (rather than continue to lionize it's father every opportunity it has)?

However, if you cannot tell me that any of the above is just not so, then at least tell me this: that there is no basis in the Holy Tradition of the Orthodox Church, in particular Her Holy Canons, for heirarchs and flocks to separate from those who do the above.

Seraphim

[Seraphim Reeves]

Peter,

Perhaps "Orthodoxy or Death's" illness is contagious.

I'm still not quite sure what "cootie" OOD has, though I am quite sure that heresy is contagious - which is precisely why the Church has never recognized any basis for remaining in communion with it.

Seraphim

[Gregory]

Seraphim Reeves,

You make good points on your posts, even though I do not draw the same conclusions as you do.

But please answer an honest question: Do you consider OOD Orthodox? Do you consider GOC Orthodox? It seems that you don't because 1) ROAC is not in communion with GOC and because 2) no church outside of ROAC is Orthodox.

Now, if you don't consider OOD Orthodox, then he and his church are Graceless (according to your ecclessiology). So, why are the GOC and OOD never questioned here?

The same question is addressed to OOD. Do you consider Nicholas and Seraphim Orthodox? My guess is no.

Gregory