Abortion Icon

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Andreas
Member
Posts: 103
Joined: Fri 21 November 2003 12:59 am

Abortion Icon

Post by Andreas »

Justin Kissel

Post by Justin Kissel »

...Is it wrong for me to be disturbed at seeing a breast on an icon?

Daniel
Member
Posts: 443
Joined: Thu 10 July 2003 9:00 pm

Post by Daniel »

I don't think it is disturbing. Particularly given that what is really being depicted is the Theotokos nursing Christ. I believe I have seen an Ethiopian icon showing Christ nursing.

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

Justin,

I have a few icons like this depicted in a book on icons of Russia - they look very traditional expect that they are somewhat unusual.

Surley abortion is a serious crime, but somehow I think an even greater crime is the moral one - the betrayal of conscience. After all, the unborn will be in Christ's hands, which are the most perfect hands, but what of those who are responsible? I feel our prayers should be for them much more!

What disturbs me is when a certain issue ascends to all important heights and is turned into and accepted as a crisis of faith, or a crisis of the Church.

Icons are a vision of heaven, a vision of the prototype. I have never seen icons of social evils depicted and offered as a replacement. Or might we next see an icon of the evils of homosexual marriages, or the Rwandan genocides?

Allow me to offer a quote:

Temptation for Christians is not always animalistic. Most of the time it is very clever, or the devil would not have been called cunning. The call of the world is never sent naked but cloaked in the delusion of love. “Go save your brothers. Don’t you see that they seek help?” And the hesychast goes into the world or concerns himself with the world, and ceases to be a hesychast. And once a Christian believes he will save and help people, he has become a victim of the evil one. None of us can help or save anyone. The only savior and helper is God. And once we lose this truth, we lose everything.

The Orthodox had never lost this truth. That is why their gaze was always inward and never outward. And that is why, without pursuing it themselves, they became instruments of divine providence for the salvation of men. The apostles themselves, who were clearly sent to men for this purpose by the Lord, were men of inner reflection. They were not men of action but of prayer. And thus their word had power. It was the word of God. They bore no resemblance to today’s missionaries.

The missionaries of Orthodoxy carried out missions without trying and without even knowing it, because missionaries are not members of an order in the Church. All Orthodox Christians are missionaries, if they are truly people of God. And therefore they would not be the ones who seek disciples and think of themselves as teachers. Rather, disciples would seek after them.

Orthodox Christians do not seek after the salvation of others. They labor for their own salvation and leave the salvation of others to God. And thus if they are made worthy of becoming an abode of God, and God speaks through their eyes and their mouths and their hearts, they might become instruments of the salvation of others. But they will never seek on their own to become such an instrument. And if in fact they were to become instruments of the salvation of others, only God would know it.

The more intensely we live with God and the more deeply we penetrate our hearts and meet God who abides in the hearts of baptized Christians, the more will people around us be saved, without our even having an inkling of it. It is not we who would save them but God who dwells in us. We should have no concern about it unless God has given us a specific and clear commandment as He gave the apostles. And if He gives us such a commandment, we take it up as if it were a cross He placed on our shoulder; though, like the fishes in the sea, we ever long for quiet. “The Kingdom of God is within you.” (Lk. 17:21)

bogoliubtsy
Sr Member
Posts: 666
Joined: Wed 16 April 2003 4:53 pm
Location: Russia

Post by bogoliubtsy »

OrthodoxyOrDeath wrote:

Justin,

I have a few icons like this depicted in a book on icons of Russia - they look very traditional expect that they are somewhat unusual.

Surley abortion is a serious crime, but somehow I think an even greater crime is the moral one - the betrayal of conscience. After all, the unborn will be in Christ's hands, which are the most perfect hands, but what of those who are responsible? I feel our prayers should be for them much more!

What disturbs me is when a certain issue ascends to all important heights and is turned into and accepted as a crisis of faith, or a crisis of the Church.

Icons are a vision of heaven, a vision of the prototype. I have never seen icons of social evils depicted and offered as a replacement. Or might we next see an icon of the evils of homosexual marriages, or the Rwandan genocides?

Someone alert the press... I agree with OOD!

OrthodoxyOrDeath

Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

Oh my, after you said that I had to re-read my post to make sure I agreed with it! :)

Vicki
Jr Member
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue 27 April 2004 4:52 pm

Post by Vicki »

OrthodoxyOrDeath wrote:

Surley abortion is a serious crime, but somehow I think an even greater crime is the moral one - the betrayal of conscience. After all, the unborn will be in Christ's hands, which are the most perfect hands, but what of those who are responsible? I feel our prayers should be for them much more!

What disturbs me is when a certain issue ascends to all important heights and is turned into and accepted as a crisis of faith, or a crisis of the Church.

Icons are a vision of heaven, a vision of the prototype. I have never seen icons of social evils depicted and offered as a replacement. Or might we next see an icon of the evils of homosexual marriages, or the Rwandan genocides?

I, too ALMOST found myself agreeing here.

Almost. But what is being done here is to equate this to the Slaughter of Innocents, from what I can tell, and the reminder is to those who would "hinder" those little ones from being born, and lovingly nurtured and cherished as a gift from Christ. It is a fine line, indeed...and may err more on the social evils, as those victims of abortion have not been given the status of martyrs as the Holy Innocents have.

Other icons of abortion, I agree with, whole-heartedly, that due to their compostition, they do not even make THAT close an attempt at theology.

May I add, that this is simply an ugly icon, as well? I will likely get things thrown at me, but it is NOT particularly uplifting, not well executed.

Vicki

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