A Catacomb Epistle of 1962

[Daniel]

I think the epistle and the essay I posted together show that the situation in Russia was way more complex than I had previously thought. Way, way more gray area than I had previously considered. I also get the idea that there was a strong distiction made between the administration in Moscow and the average faithful Christian who may have found themselves part of the MP.

[bogoliubtsy]

I was looking through Holy Cross Hermitage's siteand they have some back issues of Orthodox Life. In the March-April issue from 1951 there is an interesting article about the Catacomb church. I think it's tone and such are not too dis-similar from the Epistle written 11years later.

I agree.

I imagine this thread isn't getting many responses due to the Epistles tone and actual content, which is quite different from the attitude of some who claim to be descendents from this same Catacomb Church.

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

bogoliubtsy,

I really have no intention of getting into any more long an useless debates, but since this epistle deserves a response, this will be my one and only...

The vast majority of catacombniks thought very differently. Because you found an epistle which was probably written in some sense of isolatation and context, it does not by any means overturn the entire witness of the Church from all centuries past, and which is present for all to see and find. Indeed, there have been entire synods of hundreds of bishops who said unorthodox things, why should it be any surprise we have an epsitle?

There are indeed many other epistles and writings available from the catacomb, in fact you must have been quite frustrated to have to have read through them all to find this one.

But I am not all that opposed to the ideas behind this epistle as I have stated most of the thoughts myself. But where I draw the line is where all of the Holy Fathers drew the line: If Christ makes secret exceptions to His law, it is His law to do so. We are not Cherubim and Seraphim and do not know what these secret judgements are, we only have what Christ has told us through His Church, which is clear when it comes to matters of Grace and heretics.

This epistle blurs and overturns all of the canons, synods and Holy Fathers. Indeed, if I ignored the Church and recognized this epistle (and it must be one or the other) I might as easily be an Anglican under a homosexual bishop, after all, the "The Spirit breathes where It will; and ... even through His most unworthy ministers".

Yes, but who are His ministers? Those who attack and join with anti-christs trying to destroy His church through murder, destruction and lies? What does the Church say about "wolves in sheep clothing"?

Yes Peter, it is truly no surprise you found this epistle. You will no doubt find many other such epistles and examples to formulate an excuse for just about anything you decide to do. If Protestants can do this with Holy Scripture, which is perfect, how much easier is it to do with men who are not perfect.

[bogoliubtsy]

Well, no surprise that your opinions aren't those of the Catacomb Church.
This and other real Catacomb documents share the same spirit. The issue, to put it simply, cannot be reduced to strict reliance on and interpretation of the canons. The Church interprets the canons, the canons don't rule over us. Where are these numerous other Catacomb epistles you've mentioned which are at odds with this one?

[Anastasios]

Interesting that ROCOR, who has been through the whole process of exile and knows who it is dealing with, and Metropolitan Cyprian, whose group actually cite canons in their works extensively, both agree that New Calendarist Orthodox have grace. Even Metropolitans Petros and Pavlos believed this, but submitted to Archbishop Chrysostomos' demands that the former return to his synod. It would have been generally better for Orthodoxy in America if Metropolitan Petros of blessed memory had stayed firm to his convictions and remained a part of ROCOR.

So it's not an issue of "we read the canons so we know what we are talking about" vs. "you are uneducated in the Fathers." I am sure both groups read the Fathers, but come to radically different conclusions. Given this, we need to look to the experience and witness of the groups in order to understand these canons and their practical application. Given the witness of ROCOR and Metropolitan Cyprian, I would stake my place with them.

anastasios

[尼古拉前执事]

It is an anonymous epistle. It was one person's opinion. There are plenty of catacomb priests that wrote quite the opposite. If I posted an anonymous post of one solitary ROCOR member saying that the MP was heretical would that make it the opinion of the whole ROCOR? I think not.

[尼古拉前执事]

Daniel were you talking about these pages?

http://www.monasterypress.com/catacomb.html

http://www.monasterypress.com/personal.html