Pope and Orthodox leader urge dialogue with Islam

Natasha · Post by **Natasha** » Thu 1 July 2004 9:03 pm

Pope and Orthodox leader urge dialogue with Islam
01 Jul 2004 14:58:36 GMT

VATICAN CITY, July 1 (Reuters ) - Pope John Paul and the symbolic leader of the world's Orthodox Christians made a joint commitment on Thursday to work for "real dialogue" with Islam and combat terrorism together.

The Pope and Bartholomew I, the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople based in what is now the Turkish city of Istanbul, signed a joint declaration on a range of issues at the end of Bartholomew's official visit to the Vatican.

During the visit, Bartholomew's first to the Vatican in 9 years, the two leaders made a number of appeals for unity of the Eastern and Western branches of Christianity that split in the Great Schism of 1054.

Among the joint goals in their declaration was to "build a real dialogue with Islam because indifference and reciprocal ignorance can only spawn diffidence and even hate".

The two sides also committed themselves to "healing the plague of terrorism with love".

Since his election in 1978, the Pope has made reconciliation with the Orthodox Christians a priority of his reign.

During a visit to Athens in 2001, he asked God to forgive Roman Catholics for 1,000 years of sins against Orthodox Christians.

He has also apologised to Muslims for the Crusades, which aimed to win the Holy Land back from them, and to Jews for centuries of anti-Semitism.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L01140711.htm

Etienne · Post by **Etienne** » Fri 2 July 2004 12:13 pm

Thank you, Natasha, for the post.

A couple of thoughts.

First, An Orthodox heirarch can join with a Roman Pontiff but cannot communicate with the many traditionalist Christian Orthodox heirarchs that there are. What does he have more in common with the Pontiff than those strugglers for Truth?

Second, a dialogue with Islam. Again such a slewed set of priorities! Perhaps he might query why if we have over 1000 mosques in the UK, why it is so difficult to have a reciprocal arrangements with, say, Saudi Arabia? Or why in Western Europe we have so many wearing Moslem dress but such resistance to the wearing of Christian clerical dress in a number of Moslem states?

I really dislike hatred or discrimination against members of this or that religious community - and the last 100 years has seen some fearsome examples of this. However I also dislike one way streets.

However, to return to the proposed dialogue, the God worshipped by true Christians is NOT the same God worshipped by Moslems. Read your Bible, consider the age old teaching of the Christian Orthodox Church and then read the Koran. We do not worship the same God. Therefore what would be the purpose of any dialogue? To find the lowest common denominator between us or, possibly, to simply consider how we might live amiably together without either side compromising our beliefs?

If it is the latter, I might follow the progress with some cautionary interest. My concern is that it is part of an agenda for a One World, One Faith approach!

Chrysostomos · Post by **Chrysostomos** » Fri 2 July 2004 1:02 pm

Etienne,

I am far from an expert on the Patriarch of Constantinople, and
perhaps OOD, or someone else from one of the Greek jurisdictions
can comment further.
The number of Orthodox Christians continues to dwindle in
Turkey. It is from that "pool" of Orthodox Christians that the
Patriarch of Constantinople is chosen. Further, if my understanding
is correct, which could be way off...when the Patriarch is chosen,
it must have the blessing of the Turkish Government. Therefore,
it doesn't surprise me to see the Patriarch making such a statement,
as it is unfortunately, politically correct to do so in his case.
I must admit, it does appear that the road is being "paved" for a
one world, one faith approach. May God destroy these plans.
You might reply, but it is bound to happen sooner or later....I would
rather he destroy the plans now, and give those on earth and
being born as we speak, more time to repent and embrace the
Orthodox Faith.
I further pray, that whoever the next Patriarch of Constantinople
is, that by God's hand, that he be a staunch defender of Orthodoxy.
That the Turks, even though they wish it not, that it be so.

Lord have mercy,

Rd. Chrysostomos

Etienne · Post by **Etienne** » Fri 2 July 2004 3:18 pm

Thank you, Chrysostomos, I agree that the situation for any Patriarch is a trial. Visiting Turkey I generally had a lovely time but there were glimses and encounters that left me in no doubt of some profoundly anti-Christian and anti-Greek feeling held by at least some Turks.

What does puzzle me is what the Phanar chooses to involve itself in and what it distances itself from. It would be unlikely that the Turks could care less about some of those positive or negative choices. But if the situation is so intolerable that our Faith is compromised then it might be better that the Christian Orthodox go into exile, and hold The City in their hearts were none may take it from them. That would be an exceedingly heart-breaking choice but if it were that or to compromise on faith? Others may have a very different 'insight', of course.

In the Russian Church true believers have historically had to go into hiding or exile, rather than to compromise.

When writing such sentiments from the comparitive ease and security of life in Europe or North America, I recognise the need to avoid being too prescriptive..........

Seeker · Post by **Seeker** » Fri 2 July 2004 7:32 pm

Don't be to critical in these matters. Does anyone have a solution to the Islam problem?

Dialog does not mean giving up principles. It means communicating.
Webster defines dialog:

1 : a written composition in which two or more characters are represented as conversing
2 a : a conversation between two or more persons; also : a similar exchange between a person and something else (as a computer) b : an exchange of ideas and opinions c : a discussion between representatives of parties to a conflict that is aimed at resolution
3 : the conversational element of literary or dramatic composition
4 : a musical composition for two or more parts suggestive of a conversation

Perhaps, just perhaps this is the will of God.

Lucian · Post by **Lucian** » Sun 4 July 2004 3:12 pm

Why would the Pope apologize to Muslims for the Crusades?

Were they his fault?

Certainly there were horrible abuses by the Crusaders, but who invited the Muslims to conquer the Holy Land - which was Christian territory - in the first place?

What was the Pope saying?

"Sorry we tried to take the Holy Land back from invaders who were in the service of the devil" ?

What could possibly delude the Pope and the EP into thinking a "dialogue" between them and the Muslims (who have no similar hierarchs representing all of them) will have an impact on terrorism?

You can't dialogue with the devil.

You have to use the Gospel to chase him out of his followers' hearts, one by one.