In defense of the faith....

[joasia]

"But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father Who speaks in you." (Matthew 10:19-20)

I agree, George, but we were talking about what-ifs. You can quote the Bible all you want, but if it is done out of pride to put others down...then you should remember the story of the rich man who was praying, but looked side-ways to the poor man and asked that he not be like him. Why are you so harse with Miriam? She made some very good points.

"But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also." (Matthew 5:39) I may be 'nit picking', but I think I will follow the teachings of my Christ rather than your teachings Joanna.

Really? You're calling me evil, now? And this comment is suppose to sound like you're turning the other cheek? I'm curious...what God do you think I am worshipping?

"'Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they will utter, but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation'"- because they said,'He has an unclean Spirit.'"(Mark 3:28-30)

You'd be surprised, but I did know this. I was just keeping it limited to the matters of the flesh.

Again, I may be 'nit picking', but I think I will follow the teachings of my Christ rather than your teachings Joanna.

Again, who do you think I worship?

Ti theleis?

If I can admit that I was wrong about the infallibility issue, can you admit you are being too rough on Miriam with your responses? She was sweet enough to look up the word.

I have a quote for you: "forgive us our tresspasses as we forgive those who have tresspassed agains us". Don't you say the prayer of Pater Eimon before you eat? We all get carried away sometimes.

By the way, I am a catholic convert. I was baptised in a Greek church and go to a Russian church now. My nouna is Greek and living in Athens now.

But, I admit that I am not completely versed in theology, but I still know some things.

Let's get back to Miriam's issue. What do you think about the issue of running into a burning church and taking your wife and kids with you in order to be martyrs? Where do we draw the line between martyrdom and fanatism?

In Christ,

Joanna

[TomS]

Let's get back to Miriam's issue. What do you think about the issue of running into a burning church and taking your wife and kids with you in order to be martyrs?

Simple answer - it is murder.

[George Australia]

Why are you so harse with Miriam? She made some very good points.

Dear Joanna,
Can you point out where I was 'so harsh' with miriam? It is easy to misunderstand written conversation, are you sure you haven't made a mistake?

Really? You're calling me evil, now?

You see what I mean? The scripture quote refers to us all generally. We were talking about martyrdom. You said we should defend ourselves when attacked:

When we are attacked, we obviously try to defend ourselves, and in this case, it is about our faith.

I was pointing out that Christ specifically taught us not to defend ourselves.
George

[George Australia]

Let's get back to Miriam's issue. What do you think about the issue of running into a burning church and taking your wife and kids with you in order to be martyrs?

Simple answer - it is murder.

Here here!
A martyr is a witness- how would this be witnessing? It is a suicide/murder.

[George Australia]

And this comment is suppose to sound like you're turning the other cheek?

Dear Joanna,
You must excuse my naivete. This being a discussion forum for Christians, I did not realise that you were deliberately striking your brother in Christ on the cheek; but now that you have explained that this is what you are doing, please feel free to strike my other cheek also.
George

[viniamim]

In accordance with Evangelical teaching, "Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him" (1 John 3:15). Therefore, anyone who harbors feelings of hatred or anger, anyone who wishes evil to another person, slanders, quarrels, or by some other means displays his enmity towards others, violates the sixth commandment. To prevent us from harming each other, the Lord Jesus Christ commands us to root out from our hearts all feelings of anger and vengeance which are the ultimate cause of all violent actions against others. In His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus Christ said: "You have heard that it was said to those of old, you shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment. But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother is in danger of the judgment ... You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also ... You have heard that it was said,You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven" (Matthew 5:21-40).

[TomS]

Contemplating this thread, I think that I do not have the faith/courage to be a Martyr.

I have 2 kids and another on the way. A wife I love and a good life. People who depend on me and I would not want to abandon. I just don't think I would have the courage to be a Martyr. I like my life on this world too much.