Metropolitan Paisios of Tyana

[OrthodoxyOrDeath]

Anastasios,

It has always, well maybe not always, been my belief that if there are enough converts: english speakers, or Russians, or Mexicans, and if God finds them worthy then everything else will happen naturally. Those people will find their place - they will become the priests, the council members, ect. and they will bring with them their language and culture.

I was at one time in the OCA and it had a distinct Russian flavor. Therefore I also believe from experience that it is easy to have a quiet resentment when Mother Russia or Hellenism is thrown in your face as if it were the superconducting core of the faith. I now see that people find solidity when they think their heritage is being preserved or perpetuated in this "melting-pot" of a society. This is perhaps a weakness or a strength - depending on how you look at it, but either way, there is something for everyone to gain from it; Looking back, I now see I gained something intangible from the Russians.

As far as Paisios goes and besides what it says about him, this is a common example of taking it to far. But when the a persons spirituality is weak or dead, you can often see that culture fills the void and becomes the religion. This must be seen for what it is, it is a spiritual sickness like any other. At least thats what I think.

[joasia]

I think that the Greek Liturgy is a beautiful expression of worship as it was written by the Greek Holy Fathers. With regular attendance and a translation to follow along, I came to understand what was chanted. I didn't need the translation afterwards. I knew it by heart. I have a complete inter-linear translation for Holy Week. It helps me to concentrate in my prayers. Then I had to learn again with the Russians.

In either case, when I walk into church during Liturgy, I will understand what part is being chanted.

I've heard Liturgy in English, only once. And I remember thinking that Matuska Nina and the chanter did a fabulous job of chanting.

Language is only a barrier if we refuse to absorb it. I don't mind the Greek or Russian language in Liturgy.

As for the Hellenic and Russian mentalities...they have their idiocyncracies. And some individuals born in these cultures try to force it upon us converts, which I totally disagree with. The Greeks expect us to behave and think like Greeks, yet we will always be considered xenos/xenia to them(on a nationalistic level, not Orthodox). They'll love us for coming to Orthodoxy, but, God forbid, that we would want to marry their son or daughter. That would make a mixed baby.

As for Russians, some believe that a convert to Orthodoxy cannot really be Orthodox if they are not born Russian, Greek, Bulgarian etc. Then there are the others who understand that Orthodoxy extends beyond nationality. There are two extremes, here. And please don't disagree with their very salty pickled herring.

These are my experiences. Does anyone have others or similar experiences? Maybe we can start a new thread, because this is the kind of thing, I would like to hear about with other converts. I need to know if I'm not making this up in my head.

[Anastasios]

Joasia,

You and I are the same in that we can easily absorb other languages/cultures, etc. My wife, however, is like the majority of people, who cannot deal with foreign languages in Church worship when they are the majority. She feels very out of place. I have taken her to liturgies in many languages (in my exploratory days we visited parishes of every kind, Non-Chalcedonian parishes, and even a Nestorian parish). She doesn't mind it once and awhile but can't see herself as a real member of such a parish. What can I say to her? Nothing, because she's right: if Orthodoxy is the true faith, and the Orthodox tradition is liturgy in the vernacular, why aren't there more English speaking Orthodox traditional Churches?

But rather than complain I thank God for my discovery of traditional Orthodoxy and will work to implement the things I speak of.

Anastasios