The Theotokos and Marian apparitions

[joasia]

George A.

I re-read the article. And I still think is long-winded. But, that's just my opinion. It's not a matter of dispute. I'm not arguing about the info.

I do have one COMMENT to make about one of her statements. And I will paraphrase, since my computer is tempermental and I cannot go back and forth, to review the article without freezing. She mentioned that the Theotokos should not be considered seen without the Christ Child. But, from what I recall, the Theotokos has appeared on her own as an intercessor for others in need, including whole countries(in Orthodox context of course).

So I don't understand where she came up with that. Afterall, the Portaitissa is an icon of herself who happens to be the protectress of Mt Athos, no?

And she has appeared to St. Seraphim of Sarov, with virgin girls, of course, but Christ wasn't present. She is not heaven without Christ, but she can be an intessor for us, with Christ's blessing of course.

But, just the same, it is difficult to convince others that the visions are not her, because, we Orthodox just sound loony if we try to explain why we know it's not her. We have a certainty of it, because of what we were taught in the faith, but it won't convince other people.

Anyways, I might not be making much sense right now. I'm very tired, but I wanted to write this, cause I don't know if my computer will be able to connect tomorrow.

Joanna

[George Australia]

She mentioned that the Theotokos should not be considered seen without the Christ Child. But, from what I recall, the Theotokos has appeared on her own as an intercessor for others in need, including whole countries(in Orthodox context of course).

She says (and I agree) that the Theotokos does not have any meaning without Christ- not that she cannot be seen without Him. There is no Theotokos without a "Theos" for her to be the "Tokos" of. Unlike the Roman Catholic cult of Mary which sometimes seems to direct devotion to Mary in isolation, there is no "mariology" in the Orthodox Church- only Christology.

So I don't understand where she came up with that. Afterall, the Portaitissa is an icon of herself who happens to be the protectress of Mt Athos, no?

The Portaitissa is an "hodegetria" ("She who shows the Way") in which she is depicted holding the Christ Child in her left arm and pointing to him with her right.

[Tessa]

I thought the article was FANTASTIC George, and your observations about Medjugorje were right on.

Thanks for posting it.

Tessa

[Apologitis]

Yeah right!!! The stories about Medjugorje, Guadulupe etc are all lies. Do you realy believe the Theotokos would reward the hererics for killing 800,000 faithful in Yugoslavia" or many thousands of Indians in Mexico???? Let us not even think that these demonic or man-made evil wonders are divine. These apparitions are as blessed as "Blessed" Alojizije Stepinac! St. Mark of Ephesus correctly said "Avoid the Papists as you would avoid a snake"...