What he said! (pointing)

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Chrysostomos
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What he said! (pointing)

Post by Chrysostomos »

I have been absent from this board for some time. Still lurking, but not adding anything of value. I read recently something that Justin Kissel said that resonated with me.

This ecumenist vs. traditionalist dichotomy is really more a mirror of internet disputes than reality. In the real world, people don't ordinarily sit around debating the merits of keeping a strict or ultra-strict fast with other laymen, or boo-hoo for hours on end how much havoc the new calendar has caused.

The rest of us (me included) are just playing around, maybe saying long prayers, maybe doing all the right ceremonial movements, maybe saying all the fancy theological jargon... but we are playing around nonetheless.

First, what I found most interesting, was that no one really responded. Maybe a good post, but far be it from anyone to respond and say, hey Justin - you're right! Or, I feel the same way! I'm guilty of this too!

Justin - me too!

I want to first type out some excerpts from some books I read, thoughts mulling around in my mind and then respond accordingly.

My secret is that I need God - that I am sick and can no longer make it alone. I need God to help me give, because I no longer seem capable of giving; to help me to be kind, as I no longer seem capable of kindness; to help me love, as I seem beyond being able to love.

That quote is me, my brothers and sisters. Oh sure, I can justify and rationalize my self, my deeds, or lack thereof. It's a kind of numb feeling, realizing that, and expressing it. Being vulnerable, when you feel no one else really wants to admit it, but deep down, maybe they can relate. I know the Church's prescription is the answer, it's the taking of it, and acting on it, on a daily basis that is hard. It's the realization that you can go through the motions, but unless it's from the heart - it's total emptiness.

You can really know the truth, in the biblical sense, only when the truth is embodied or incarnated in the life of the community of the land.

I think this hits the nail on the head quite well. We talk a good talk, but the "truth" is not embodied, or incarnated in our lives. Perhaps I speak only for myself, but I confess, I fall short of doing so. If it were, then we would see more changes than we do. Changes in our own lives and the lives of those around us.

I reflected long and hard on the very conditional and utilitarian nature of relationships, the absense of genuine friendships, the absense of deep community, of shared interests, and of shared experiences.

This board and many Orthodox Churches in general exhibit this "very conditional/utilitarian nature of relationships". Oh, you are "old calendar" - approved. New calander, you are "World Orthodox". Relegated to second class citizenship, if at best. A hybrid "class system". If you are greek or russian, you might stand a notch above the average "american" as well. If you are a "convert", well, depends on what jurisdiction, but you are viewed always with suspicion. Only the cradle born Orthodox understand. What about this one - He does not have the Greek mind! In other words, because he is not greek, he cannot fathom what it means to be truly Orthodox. I have heard this myself! I thought we were to have the mind of Christ? But I digress....

Is your church one a "deep community", one of "shared interests", one of "shared experiences?" No, I am not talking about discussing what St. Gregory said, or debating the most recent theological treatise. I am talking about "real life" issues. The ability and freedom to express your doubts, your pains, your frustrations, your challenges, without feeling you are being judged by doing so. That those among you can express that they too have gone through those things, felt or thought those things and encourage/edify each other.

That's something I noticed on this board, rarely if ever do you see many express their "short-comings". Perhaps it's best, due to maintaining an amount of autonomy and self-ego that naturally is part and parcel of being in America. The challenge is, you know, that in reality, it only leads to loneliness and confusion. So long as we all "hold up a front", that we got our act together, and it's all the rest of you that don't have it right!

I was reading St. Cyril's lectures, and it talked about being called "faithful servants". That faith is an action. Once that action is taken, God gives you the grace to accomplish that which you set out in faith on doing.

I want to be a faithful servant and I am putting that faith in action. May God grant me the grace to obtain that title, and be vulnerable and humble in the process.

With humble bow,

Rd. Chrysostomos

Ekaterina
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Post by Ekaterina »

Chrysostomos,
First, of all,...welcome back....

Second, thank you for this....

My secret is that I need God - that I am sick and can no longer make it alone. I need God to help me give, because I no longer seem capable of giving; to help me to be kind, as I no longer seem capable of kindness; to help me love, as I seem beyond being able to love.

It resonated in my soul more than you know. I copied to comtemplate later today. Your comments after the quote also hit the nail on the head and expressed somthing I have long felt.

Third...you wrote...

I read recently something that Justin Kissel said that resonated with me.

Quote:
This ecumenist vs. traditionalist dichotomy is really more a mirror of internet disputes than reality. In the real world, people don't ordinarily sit around debating the merits of keeping a strict or ultra-strict fast with other laymen, or boo-hoo for hours on end how much havoc the new calendar has caused.

Quote:
The rest of us (me included) are just playing around, maybe saying long prayers, maybe doing all the right ceremonial movements, maybe saying all the fancy theological jargon... but we are playing around nonetheless.

First, what I found most interesting, was that no one really responded. Maybe a good post, but far be it from anyone to respond and say, hey Justin - you're right! Or, I feel the same way! I'm guilty of this too!

Justin - me too!

Justin---Me Too! But Chrys said it much better than I !

And last, you wrote:

The ability and freedom to express your doubts, your pains, your frustrations, your challenges, without feeling you are being judged by doing so. That those among you can express that they too have gone through those things, felt or thought those things and encourage/edify each other.

It is hard to acknowledge anything, because then you have to aknowledge the failing within yourself. It is far easier to look down at others rather than acknowledge that you are just the same as your brother.

Thank you again for this post,
Katya

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Post by Chrysostomos »

St. Nikolai Velimirovic, Commentary on 1 Cor. 10:24

  1. Cor. 10:24: "Let no one seek his own, but each one the other's well-being" NKJV

That is the principle of the saints of God, both in times past and at the present time, from all ages to the end of the world. That is the principle of all true social structure. On that principle can be founded a human society that is the most perfect, the most pleasing to God and the happiest. It is a saving principle in every kind of difficulty that people today encounter, against which they struggle without victory and without hope. A holy soul cares for his neighbor, either close at hand or far away. He cares where the homeless will spend the night, how the hungry will be fed, with what the naked will be clothed. He cares and he prays for the salvation of his neighbors; that their hearts may be filled with love towards God, that their minds may be directed towards God, that the wicked may turn from the paths of wickedness, that the hesitant may be confirmed in the Faith, that the firm may persevere, that the departed may behold the Face of God, that the living may be written in the book of Life in the Kingdom of Light.

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joasia
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Post by joasia »

Chrysostomos wrote:

First, what I found most interesting, was that no one really responded. Maybe a good post, but far be it from anyone to respond and say, hey Justin - you're right! Or, I feel the same way!

Do you have selective reading or what?? Didn't you see my post in response?? Perhaps you have something against me and wanted to ignore my post?? Forgive me for being paranoid, but I've had a really baaadddd week!

Let me copy it here for your convenience.

Well, I agree with Justin and that's why I posted an appeal to the clergy a few days ago in the prayer section. But, alas, I've had no responses.

(A Challenge to the priests and deacons in the cafe).

I posted July 29. Justin posted Aug 1. I responded to his post on Aug 2.

I think we both were reflecting the same idea, but with different expressions(I don't express myself so good as he does).

Anyways, this is my response, to this thread. I hope I'm not writng with invisible ink.

Joanna

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)

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