On the question of the calendar

[Kollyvas]

Yes, they have to to avoid the anathemas of Nicea and earlier Apostolic councils regarding "celebrating Pascha with the Jews"--see Eusebius, arguing that they observe the letter of the Canons (all the while defiling the Spirit). 3 Councils of Jerusalem bearing ecumenical character anathemized the new calendar (16th-17th cent. signed by Eastern Patriarchs including Constantinople). Moreover, Alaska is still Old Calendar in the OCA, and there are parishes of the OCA around the country which retain the Orthodox calendar. Even new parishes and missions in the OCA may be formed as Old Calendar communities. If only they'd reverse coarse and restore Eucharistic unity with the rest of the Russian church and officially observe the Old Calendar while allowing the new as a means of economy or accomodation of communities like the Romanians! The Antiochians are taking a more lenient approach toward the question of the Old Calendar as well. I believe former hermanite communities and Boscobel, WI have been allowed to retain the Old Calendar by the Bulgarians. Even the Greek new calendarists under +Spyridon sought accomodation of Old Calendar communities and even created a separate diocese under +Paisios, a former GOC heirarch--alas, the ep reversed course and crushed tthis work...
R

[CorpusChristi]

Very good Kollyvas, in the sanfrancisco area there are about 5-6 OCA church and one monastery that follow the old calendar.. Ive been in the presence of OCa Priests that have said We celebrate the Nativity of our lord from the 24th to the 7th of january, we just start the nativity Fast a week or so earlier and finish it a week or so earlier as well.........
for me its caused much confusion in my worldly life, for I dont see following a Church old calendar and living in a totally different civil calendar..it makes no sense, thus why ive prayed and prayed for some
insight on this very crucial issue for my salvation...and DING it came to me, I seek my salvation and honor no one else but GOD reguardless of what time zone,calendar or continent, or even planet...we always talk about the world, does that include other planets too? or just earth ?
the point is many miracles have happened on the original calendar and by far old...so I have as of yesterday started to observe the new calendar aswell , for we remember the same feasts and Saints, just at thifferent dates..kinda like the time zones. where im at now its 8:01 on December 2nd and my friends in Jerusalem are on December 3rd and who knows what time it is over there, but one thing is for sure we Worship the same and love ONE infinite GOD of TRUTH...........

[AndyHolland]

The Holy Fire did not come on Orthodox Easter when the Jerusalem Patriarchate switched to the New Calendar briefly in 1969-1970. It resumed immediately after the Orthodox calendar was restored:

http://www.holyfire.org/eng/doc_LitHavoc.htm

For other information see:
http://www.holyfire.org/eng/

The Holy Thorn of Glastonbury blooms on Orthodox Christmas, and apparently on Pascha (See other threads references or Google).

The New Calendar has been a cause of schism:

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/c ... eward.aspx

and martydrom and suffering.

All that said, I am in a New Calendar Orthodox Church, and this is a cause of problems. Besides, if we used the Orthodox calendar we could take advantage of post Christmas sales

Yours in Christ Jesus,

Andy Holland - Antiochian (SCOBA) that uses the "New" calendar.

[drewmeister2]

Thank you for your post!

The World Orthodox claim that they use the Orthodox Revised Gregorian calendar (saying that it is different from the RCC calendar, as the World Orthodox still have Pascha on the Old Calendar date). Is there really that much of a difference, though, between the RCC calendar, and the Orthodox revised Gregorian calendar?

[Kollyvas]

Yes, the calculations for the Meletian Calendar are more precise and days have to be added every 2000 years or so, not every few hundred. The Meletian Calendar also is a hybrid for it retains the Julian reckoning for the Paschalion...
R

[joasia]

CorpusChristi wrote:

so I have as of yesterday started to observe the new calendar aswell , for we remember the same feasts and Saints, just at thifferent dates..kinda like the time zones. where im at now its 8:01 on December 2nd and my friends in Jerusalem are on December 3rd and who knows what time it is over there, but one thing is for sure we Worship the same and love ONE infinite GOD of TRUTH...........

It's not a matter of time zones, per se. A saint once explained(and forgive me for not remembering his name), that the heavens celebrate the Liturgy with us. The saints descend and help in the altar and Christ comes to bless the people when the Holy Chalice is brought out for the Great Entrance. Therefore, the angels and saints celebrate the feast days on a particular, earthly date; because the Heavenly Church and the earthly church should be united in worship and prayer. When it's Dec. 6th, for St. Nicholas, they celebrate it on one calendar, not two, because when Dec. 19th rolls along, it's another saint's names day. So on Dec. 6th/19th, one calendar celebrates one saint and the other, another. And to take it a step further: does God send some angels to serve in the altar and commemorate one saint and another? Does that make any sense?? Not to mention Christmas. Heaven will be celebrating Christmas twice?? God is establishes order and clarity, not disorder and confusion.

No. no. Only one calendar is the correct one, even if the calculations of that calendar are not so accurate. It's a matter of spiritual truth, not earthly correctness. Plus, the issue of changing the calendar, was meant to create confusion, because the enemy wants to destroy the church and turn people away from Christ. It's done with tiny steps, but over the years, the difference is huge.

ONE infinite GOD of TRUTH

Yes. One God, One faith, One Truth. But, as you see, the calendar issue has created many views...the oneness for truth has been slowly stolen away....and replaced with confusion through subjectivism and excuses(for why the hierarch changed the calendar).

In Christ,

Joanna

[1937 Miraculous Cross]

It is a very simple matter. The Church was of one liturgical mind after the 1st Ecumenical council. The matter of establishing one way of reckoning Holy Pascha was not because one particular day of the year is better than any other, but rather to establish UNITY of the Church. Pascha is a big focal point.

The Holy Fathers under Pat. Jeremiah of the Pan-Orthodox councils in the 1500's say this in part 7. of the Sigillion:

"Whoever does not follow the customs of the Church which the Seven Holy Ecumenical Councils have decreed, and the Holy Pascha
and calendar which they enacted well for us to follow, but wants to follow the newly invented Paschalion and the new calendar of the ...Pope, and opposing them, wishes to overthrow and destroy the doctrines and CUSTOMS of the Church which we have inherited from the Fathers, let any such have the anathema and let him be outside the Church..."

We always focus on the part about the Gregorian calendar, but the first part of this section 7 is significant: "...and the calendar which they (they Holy ecumenical councils) have enacted well for us to follow."

I am sorry, but this is my opinion and that of the True Orthodox Church, those of you who are on the Revised Julian/"new" calendar, are not on the Patristic Orthodox Calendar and are under the anathema of this Pan-Orthodox Sigillion. Your bishops have deviated from the Church by enacting something foreign. Your continuing participation in such new Calendar jurisdictions is in essence an acceptance of this deviation, and you are under the anathema. However, there is a spiritual "prescription" to be received back into the Church. Please consider these serious matters. What does it matter to leave your parish, your priest, your bishop if they are all under this anathema? Your salvation is about you, not them.

in Christ,
Nectarios Manzanero