Regathering of the two houses of Israel and Judah

catechuman · Post by **catechuman** » Wed 15 March 2006 5:42 pm

Greetings!

I am Curious to know if there have been any patristic statements or positions on the OT prophecies concerning the regathering of the houses of Judah and Israel back into the land of Israel from exile. Did these get prophecies get fulfilled before Christ's mission to the "lost sheep"? It seems to me that these prophecies would have to have been fulfilled before Jesus' time if He went to the Holy Land to "gather the lost sheep". If both houses were not regathered then I can't make sense of the phrase "He came to His own but His own received Him not". Also, if both houses were not regathered in the Holy Land, then I don't quite understand this statement, “But Isaiah is very bold and says, “I was found by those not seeking Me, I came to be revealed to those not inquiring after Me.” But to Israel He says, “All the day I stretched out My hands to a disobeying and contradicting people.” Rom. 10:20-21 . Surely both Houses were present for the Kingdom of God to be "taken from the children and given to a nation which would bear much fruit". I could be wrong, though.

Any comments on this nagging question would be of great help.

God Bless,C

尼古拉前执事 · Post by **尼古拉前执事** » Wed 15 March 2006 8:38 pm

It depends which verses you speak of whether it is talking about Daniel reigning over all of Israel and Judah or of Christ. If you could tell us which verses you mean, we might be able to better give you an answer, as many regatherings are spoken of in the OT and it would be good to get commentaries on the verses you speak of.

catechuman · Post by **catechuman** » Thu 16 March 2006 7:57 am

Thanks for your response! These are the verses in question:

Ezekiel 37 15-23: The word of the LORD came again to me saying, "And you, son of man, take for yourself one stick and write on it, 'For Judah and for the sons of Israel, his companions;' then take another stick and write on it, 'For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and all the house of Israel, his companions.' Then join them for yourself one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand. And when the sons of your people speak to you saying, 'Will you not declare to us what you mean by these,' say to them, 'Thus says the LORD God, "Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will put them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand." ...Thus says the LORD God, 'Behold I have taken the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; one king will be king for all of them; and they will no longer be two nations, and they will no longer be divided into two kingdoms. And they will no longer defile themselves with their idols...'

Hosea 1:11 which says "The people of Judah and the people of Israel will be reunited."

It seems to me that Christ came to the regathered Israelites and fulfilled the unification of the remnant - as well as included the Gentiles - and now sits as the King over the Kingdom (Orthodox Church)fortold in the OT.

I am very interested in knowing what the Fathers say about this.

catechuman · Post by **catechuman** » Fri 17 March 2006 9:59 am

Also, if anybody could point me in the direction of finding out myself what the fathers say about these scriptures I would be most appreciative. I don't know how to access this information and I really want to know if these prophecies have been fulfilled.

Thanks!
C

AndyHolland · Post by **AndyHolland** » Fri 17 March 2006 11:06 am

Dear Catechuman,

Curiosity killed the cat(echuman). Please be careful about curiosity and have patience to allow the Lord to give you information in the right time. If you go to Church and have Faith in Jesus Christ, all your questions will be answered. Read the Fathers as they present themselves, rather than reading Scripture and then back-tracking to them.

If you wish to believe that Jesus Christ fullfills all the law and the prophets, you have no further to look than Psalm 22 (presented below with some comments) which describes the crucifixon in poetic detail from first person perspective.

The Scripture is precise, authentic, and perfect - just like Jesus Christ the Lord. We cannot receive too much information too quickly though. We start with milk, and move onward toward wine.

andy holland
Antiochian Orthodox
sinner

Psalms:22:1: My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring? [read the Gospel account]
Psalms:22:2: O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent. [prayer in the garden]
Psalms:22:3: But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel. [they sing psalms before these events]
Psalms:22:4: Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them. [remember Moses parting the sea]
Psalms:22:5: They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
Psalms:22:6: But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people. [Read the book of Jonah - and the Worm. Remember what Jesus said about the sign of Jonah?]
Psalms:22:7: All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head saying,
Psalms:22:8: He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. [fullfilled]
Psalms:22:9: But thou art he that took me out of the womb: thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts. [remember John kicking when Mary came to visit Elizabeth?]
Psalms:22:10: I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly. [Refutes the Gnostics - Jesus is fully human and fully Divine, and the Theotokus is the Mother of God]
Psalms:22:11: Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help. [The disciples ran away]
Psalms:22:12: Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round. [Roman mercenaries from the land of Bashan - you couldn't have made that up after the fact - it aligns independently with archeology and history and is perfect]
Psalms:22:13: They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion. [fullfilled]
Psalms:22:14: I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels. [This is what happens during crucifixon - the heart fights to keep the body on the cross, and one's bones are out of joint. Water volume goes to blood - remember what came out when they peirced His side?]Psalms:22:15: My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death. [Remember, "I thirst" ?]
Psalms:22:16: For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. [Gentile dogs. They pierced the Lords hands and feet with nails]
Psalms:22:17: I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. [They stripped him naked]
Psalms:22:18: They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. [fullfilled - remember the garment without seam?]Psalms:22:19: But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
Psalms:22:20: Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.
Psalms:22:21: Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns. [horns of the unicorns - nails]
Psalms:22:22: I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee. [He is in Church]
Psalms:22:23: Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel. [The Kingdom of God is like a mustard seed....- have faith!]
Psalms:22:24: For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard. [It is finished]
Psalms:22:25: My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him. [Go to Church and see]
Psalms:22:26: The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.
Psalms:22:27: All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee. [fullfilled]
Psalms:22:28: For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations. [fullfilled]
Psalms:22:29: All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul. [true]
Psalms:22:30: A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation. [the Apostles in Church]
Psalms:22:31: They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this. [fullfilled]

catechuman · Post by **catechuman** » Fri 17 March 2006 2:30 pm

Thanks again Andy! I guess this "regathering of the two houses" topic has always been something that has been of great interest to me. I somehow thought it was a cut and dry issue that would be well settled in Orthodoxy seeing as so much has been revealed by the Fathers. I am completely settled on the "is Jesus YHWH in the flesh" item and all that is really left that has nagged me for the longest time is this last topic.

Your advice is sound and knowing the answer most likely will show up when I stop looking!

Thanks for taking all the time that you have in these questions.

God Bless,
C

catechuman · Post by **catechuman** » Mon 20 March 2006 9:37 am

Just a quick not to this topic. I asked my priest if the prophecies concerning the end of the exile of the tribes of Judah and Israel were completed before Christ's mission to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He said, "yes". That's about as long as the conversation lasted.

God Bless,
C