Orthodoxy and (Christian) Heavy Metal

[Justin Kissel]

I've read a number of Orthodox articles on Rock/Metal music, but I've yet to find one that actually approached things from an Orthodox perspective. What I mean is, you could just as easily find the exact same article in a fundamentalist site/journal (they use the same arguments, statistics, etc.) The problem is, 95% of the arguments aren't relevant to me, and I'm sure a lot of guys like me: we who've long ago given up listening to the Pantera's, Megadeth's and Slayer's of the world (right now I'm listening to a good Christian thrash metal band, Tourniquet... hence the reason I thought about posting this). I long ago switched to "Christian Metal," and found a few good bands to listen to. Yet I always feel torn on this issue, even if the lyrics are... er... well they aren't anti-Christian or Satan worshipping or anything. I don't find metal music to be chaotic in the least (though perhaps that's because I use to play guitar and can dig the intricacy of some of the stuff.) I don't find the music I listen to to be anti-Christians, to have foul language, sexually explicit language, etc. Yet, again, I feel torn. Something deep inside seems to say that I shouldn't listen. Why? Is it just my legalistic side rearing it's ugly head? Do I just feel guilty for what I once listened to? Do I feel guilty because I'd still like to listen to Orion or Cemetary Gates every once in a while? Okay, now I'm just jabbering.

What I really want to know is, what is the Orthodox perspective on this? What do the Fathers say about this musical form and that, and can we (taking into consideration the context) learn anything substantial from what they said? (of course, we can always learn from them... I'm just not sure that what they said would be directly applicable since entertainers and entertainment had a very different place in society a thousand years ago). What passages from the Fathers and the Bible are applicable here? Anyone ever study this? Anyone?

[Seraphim Reeves]

If memory serves, the only thing I've read on this subject comes from St.John of Kronstadt. While there was no such thing as "rock music" in his age, the question was presented to him as to which type of music is appropriate for Christians to listen to.

His counsel was as follows; what kind of passions does this music incite? Does it excite the base part of you? Or does it provide simple listening pleasure and stimulation? His answer, from what I remember consisted basically of those questions, if I remember correctly. He didn't reply by saying a particular type of music was good or bad, but with some principles.

It's for this reason that I too have some misgivings about contemporary "Christian rock." I'm not a finger pointer in this regard; I have a weak spot for a lot of contemporary music that contradicts the sound advice I repeated. However, even before I'd ever read what St.John said (I wish I had the source for this), I intuitively knew (as you seem to) that there was something "not quite right" with my listening choices, beyond the lyrical content. Indeed, I think this is why you'd probably agree that this music you listen to, even if "ok" would be totally wrong for Church use; it would arouse the wrong type of feelings and create the wrong environment. Of course, this is not to say that anything that would not be good for Church is impermissable; but I think that your gut feeling is working along a similar vain.

I still do listen to a lot of "modern" music (modern is a relative term here, as there isn't a lot that comes out these days that I think is worth listening too.) But I find naturally (even without a conscious choice) that most of my musical choices go away from the heavy metal and hard rock I used to listen to most of the time, and towards more soothing, and I feel more rewarding material.

Thus, there is (as far as I know) no pat answer for what is "kosher" musically speaking. However, since everything in life generally follows basic principles (and not specific to situation rules, per se), this shouldn't be too much of a shock.

I'd be interested to see if anyone else has any thoughts/materials on this subject.

Seraphim

[Alexis in Alaska]

Lord Bless!

It is very unbecoming of an Orthodox Christian to listen to such things. I am surprised that an Orthodox Christian would even desire to listen to such wickedness. Our life's purpose is to achieve theosis. We must focus on the theology of the Ikon of the Ladder; if so many holy priests and monks cannot make it and they live the monastic life woe unto us! We must strive to avoid the wickedness and snares of this world; is it not better to listen to the music of the Church - to have the communion of the Holy Spirit?

In St. John of the Ladder,

Alexis

Lord Bless!

[Logos]

Paradosis it is so good to hear from another Orthodox christian who likes heavy metal music. I too like heavy metal but I haven't really gotten into the Christian metal. I don't know why, but other than Tourniquet, the Christian metal bands seem subpar compared to bands like Opeth, Blind Guardian, etc. I don't listen to any bands that talk about satan or anything anti-christian(as there is a lot out there of this). One can find bands that are metal and don't talk about anything anti-Christian or use foul language or sexual innuendo such as Blind Guardian. Anyway, here is a link I have found that is written by an Orthodox priest on rock music in general.

http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.or ... n_roll.htm

There was another article written by Bishop Alexander Mileant from ROCOR I believe, but I cannot find the article at this time. But here is another site that may help you:
http://www.fatheralexander.org

[Justin Kissel]

seraphim

His counsel was as follows; what kind of passions does this music incite? Does it excite the base part of you? Or does it provide simple listening pleasure and stimulation? His answer, from what I remember consisted basically of those questions, if I remember correctly. He didn't reply by saying a particular type of music was good or bad, but with some principles.

That's interesting, and sounds like a good way to go about it. Now the question is, can we discern our own reactions properly? I know that may sound dumb, but I think sometimes we try to fool ourselves when we like something and don't try to give it up.

...Indeed, I think this is why you'd probably agree that this music you listen to, even if "ok" would be totally wrong for Church use; it would arouse the wrong type of feelings and create the wrong environment. Of course, this is not to say that anything that would not be good for Church is impermissable; but I think that your gut feeling is working along a similar vain.

Sigh, yeah, I agree totally. Believe it or not, my band use to practice in a Protestant Church :-\ We played Metallica, Black Sabbath, etc. in there all the time. The Pastor thought the Church was "just a building" and that he would be doing a good thing by "encouraging the youth" and "making Church a place people wanted to be". Oy! With such regret do I look back upon those times in my life. Ironically, it was the band members that decided that it just didn't seem right to be playing music like we were on Church Property, even if only in a recreational hall.

I guess my problem is, I don't think classical music, Jazz, or any other types of music should be played in Church. I also think that all the other genre's can have just as sinful a sub-culture attached to it as heavy metal. The lyrics of many genre's can be equally as bad--and certainly some far worse than the Christian metal lyrics I listen to. I think it leads back to our internal selves, the condition of our individual souls (and whether the passions are being inflamed). On this count, I don't think metal can really be "ok" for me. The fact that I headbanged to Metallica's "One" just the other day while listening to the radio in the car probably proves the point. I need to distance myself from the whole genre--Christian metal or secular. (Okay, I'm just talking to myself now, sorry)

AlaskanOrthodox

It is very unbecoming of an Orthodox Christian to listen to such things...

My friend, you bring up another reason to not listen to it: I will offend my brother. Whether I agree with your position is irrelevant, I'm still sorry to have offended you and possibly scandalised you.

Alexis

Thank you for the links, my friend; I will read them after work tonight.

Justin

[Steve]

I was just reading recently in Saint Nicodemos of the Holy Mountain's book " A Handbook of Spiritual Counsel" and here is one of his statements from chapter 4 on Guarding the Sense of Hearing that is relevant to this question and discussion:

First, these hedonistic and worldly songs tend to weaken the manly and proud bearing of the soul so that it becomes effeminate and lethargic as it listens to these sweet sounds. Secondly, these sensual songs tend to fill up the mind with many passionate images which they describe. Thirdly, let us suppose that even the persons doing the singing are not seen - and especially when these may be women -, nevertheless the songs themselves are capable of impressing the imagination, moving the desire of the heart and drawing out an assent from the soul.

As an old rocker, I have found this to be true in cases where the "Christian rock" in many ways sounds no different than the "worldly rock", with the exception that the lyrics are "Christian". In fact, much of what is "Christian rock" is so imitative of the current scene that many local or garage band (or sanctuary groups) take the melodies or songs of the secular and put "Christian" words to them. For me in the past few years, I find dropping all rock music altogether gives me greater capability of maintaining peace in my soul and therefore my heart. Much of what Saint Nicodemos writes in his book was directed to the monks on Mount Athos, but he makes distinctions to all clergy as well. I find that what's good for the goose is good for the gander in many of these cases. Saint Nicodemos' advice is solid and even though we may not be able to completely wean ourselves off these passions, we should move in the right direction. After all, this life is to be feasting and fasting for the soul's sake! In music, our "feasting" should move more and more to "music for the heart and the healthy soul" as well as "fasting" from that which feeds the passions.
We gotta say "no" before we can say "yes"!

Hope that helps. Forgive me for saying more than Saint Nicodemos.

humbly, Steve

[Logos]

Paradosis, here is another article that addressses the question that is written by Bishop Alexander Mileant http://www.holy-transfiguration.org/lib ... music.html

I find that it is hard for me to wean myself away from heavy metal music as I love it a lot.