No kissing before marriage?

[Pensees]

In the world be live in, sexual abstinence isn't just religious dogma but good sense. It is not something that I'd dispute nor want to. But not all physical contact between persons is necessarily sinful. Take kissing, for example. If one allows the passions to take control, kissing can go too far. But it can be a greeting between neighbors and friends (of the same or opposite sex) or an expression of love between a dating couple.
If kissing is seen by some as an inherently sexual act that must be saved for marriage, perhaps that is a reaction to our oversexualized culture.
A 25-year-old couple can still have "puppy love", kissing and showing affection for each other without it leading to pre-marital sex. It's hard for me to see that as unnatural or wrong.

Peace.

[尼古拉前执事]

Matthew, to use a more western term in this paragraph, it can be inviting the occasion of sin as it can cause lustful feelings. This is why the Church fathers called it a no-no, following the teachings of the New Testament of avoiding occasion of sin and things that can lead towards lust.

There are in fact countries like India and Poland where there is a law against such a thing.

Since I believe you are a Copt, here is something that might interest you, a Coptic forum talking against kissing before marriage: http://mycopticchurch.com/ask/Search/Search.cfm#1

[Pensees]

I'm a convert to the Indian Orthodox Church. I've never been told by my clergymen that kissing before marriage is wrong, but they also happen to be American converts to the faith. If it doesn't lead to sexual sin, how can kissing be wrong? That sounds so backward to me.

Peace.

[DavidHawthorne]

If it doesn't lead to sexual sin, how can kissing be wrong? That sounds so backward to me.

Hello, Matthew-

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So what's her name? Have you asked her out yet? Because if you don't mind the commute I know this great restraunt here in Dallas.......

Actually the Coptic site Father Deacon recommended has a great line at the head of the page that answers this question, "The Orthodox Church is a Mother who knows how to raise her children." No matter how sophisticated, progressive or in tune with modernity our culture would have us be, the Church is wiser and has the time-tested wisdom of the Fathers to guide us to Christlikeness. Their science is the cure of the soul and their words reflect that; the world/ secular culture only teaches self-gratification and their words relect that as well.

I will offer this based on my pre-marital experience: it is always better to err on the side of chastity. I have never regretted not going further in matters of intimacy; I do regret the times that I went too far (beyond light, affectionate, brief kisses). Whenever I exercised self-control I came out with a greater peace with God and more self-respect for myself AND greater love/ respect for my partner.

Of course, if you find it difficult to refrain from kissing I suggest you could find a girl like I finally did: I met my wife online. She was in Russia and I was here in Texas. We met each other in a traditional backward way using the latest technology. Touching was not an option and good communication was a daily necessity. AND kissing never unduly aroused my passions as the monitor was always too cold and clammy for much enjoyment. There is also about a 50% chance of ending up with a wacko- I found the perfect companion for me- my wife on the other hand...................

In Christ,
Rd. David

[Ekaterina]

David wrote:

There is also about a 50% chance of ending up with a wacko- I found the perfect companion for me- my wife on the other hand...................

Funny that my husband says the same thing!

Katya

[Pensees]

I would please like to be shown proof that it is wrong to kiss before marriage. I've had no problem with giving up pre-marital sex but not kissing sounds too harsh and ultra-conservative.

Peace.

[DavidHawthorne]

My understanding is that it is not wrong to kiss before marriage (that is, lightly, affectionately, briefly) but to be involved with prolonged kissing (which is more likely to inflame the passions.) Which type of kissing are you asking about? Out of curiousity though- what specifically would constitute evidence that this (second type) is wrong? One canon, two canons, an ecumenical kissing council, the general gist of saints' advice?.............