Iconophili's Great Big Thread of Conspiracies!

[CGW]

Come on people, the plane hit in a big city in broad daylight on a sunny day at a time of year when even DC has clear visibility.

It was a stunningly beautiful day. I was home waiting for the plumber (or actually watching him work) when a neighbor from across the street came and told us. The sky was utterly cloudless, and there was no haze; it is rare in this area for the sky to be so intensely blue. And there was not even a contrail in the sky; but from time to time we would hear the gutteral rumble of military jets in the distance.

Let's go to the eyewitnesses for a minute. One of the things one might notice on these conspiracy sites is that the same small set of pictures and statements appears over and over. One might think that only a few people saw the Pentagon plane, for instance.

So we go to an official government response to one of the conspiracy theorists. Near the bottom of the page is a list of twenty-five or so eyewitness statements. The plane is identified as an American Airlines jet in all but a handful of these. The two people who identified it as a commuter plane were at considerable distances, and the "cruise missile" identification was cherry-picked out of Mike Walter's account, in which he specifically identifies the plane as an American Airlines jet. Moreover, the remains found at the accident site tally with the passenger roster of Flight 77.

The official site even has a detail I hadn't known:

Finally, The 9/11 Commission Report states that on September 11, air traffic controllers at Washington's Reagan National Airport instructed a C-130H cargo plane that had just taken off from the airport to try to follow the plane that had been spotted on radar as heading toward Washington. According to the report, "The C-130H pilot spotted it, identified it as a Boeing 757, attempted to follow its path, and at 9:39, seconds after impact, reported to the control tower: ‘looks like that aircraft crashed into the Pentagon, sir.'"

[CGW]

This hoax shows the limitations of doing research on the web about highly controversial topics with enormous stakes. While the internet, and search engines like google, are an incredible invention that allow us access to a vast collection of knowledge, they are also imperfect means of discovering the truth due to the ease that fake websites can be created and the reality that not all of human experience is archived in google.

I think it is not so bad as that. From my perspective, Google's most serious problem is that its descriminatory powers are only as good as the user's cleverness in constructing a search. On the other hand, it is very powerful in revealing the connections between sites. I routinely Google the wording of controversial statements and routinely discover that they are copied from other places on the web. It was also useful in this case to chase down the many abuses of quotations.

And the web is esepcially useful as a ready archive of quackery. Once one understands that the 9/11 conspiracy sites are bogus, one can analyze them as a source of data on how woo-woo arguments are constructed. For instance, it's obvious that a lot of the material on these sites is being passed around (if not stolen) without much consideration of it. There's the picture of the landing gear wheel, for instance, that appears everywhere. It's always the same picture, taken out of context from its actual location (the hole in the wall on the inside of the C ring), and it is invariably compared to the same picture of a 757 wheel. Yet any serious inspection of the two pictures shows that the Pentagon photo is of a 757 wheel. The same pictures of the cable reels appear over and over again, even though they are clearly shot through an extremely long telephoto lens; therefore, the reels surely were not as close to the Pentagon as they appear in the picture. The "cruise missile" quote is repeated over and over, even though it is flagrantly out of context.

If one is cagey enough, one can get Google to come up with sites dedicated to refutation of the 9/11 conspiracy remor-mongers. Indeed, if you look at the conspiracy sites carefully, you'll find that some of those sites debunk others-- with ironic accuracy-- in the course of defending rival theories.

[ICONOPHILI]

1. How did the passangers use thier cell phones , from 25,000 feet when cell phones can't be used from above 4000 feet?
2. These supposed highjackers never were trained to fly 757/767's how
   did they miraculesly fly the planes and turn the plane around and find NYC, BEFORE THE HIGHJACKING, THE REAL PILOTS DIDN'T ANOUNCE WHERE THEY specifically WERE, 3. WHY DIDN'T ANY OF THE PASSANGERS, make a move on the highjackers, when they were only armed with 2" knives, how did the Gov know they only had 2" Knives?

[CGW]

Note-- Iconophili, I've decided to fix your spelling and grammar, if only because I think people should be protected from having to reread it.

1. How did the passengers use their cell phones from 25,000 feet when cell phones can't be used from above 4000 feet?

Who are you to say that this is even an issue? This is like the collapse of WTC 7; when someone objects, "but's it's the only skyscraper which ever collapsed solely due to fire," I and all the structural engineers say, "yes, and your point is?" Protests of impossibility are, as a rule, wrong. The cell phone calls were received, and therefore, it is possible. That's all there is to it.

2. These supposed highjackers never were trained to fly 757/767's; how did they miraculously fly the planes and turn the plane around and find NYC. BEFORE THE HIGHJACKING, THE REAL PILOTS DIDN'T ANNOUNCE WHERE THEY specifically WERE.

I don't know. Why don't you ask them? Again, it's obviously not impossible, because it was done.

3. WHY DIDN'T ANY OF THE PASSENGERS make a move on the highjackers, when they were only armed with 2" knives? How did the Government know they only had 2" Knives?

Um, because of those cell phone calls?

And as for why they didn't make a move, the answer, of course, is that on flight 93 they did make a move. And it's also well-documented that they did so because they were told of the fate of the other three planes, and therefore realized that the old protocol of nonresistance was the wrong thing to do.

Anything else I can teach you?

[ICONOPHILI]

Note-- Iconophili, I've decided to fix your spelling and grammar, if only because I think people should be protected from having to reread it.

1. How did the passengers use their cell phones from 25,000 feet when cell phones can't be used from above 4000 feet?

Who are you to say that this is even an issue? This is like the collapse of WTC 7; when someone objects, "but's it's the only skyscraper which ever collapsed solely due to fire," I and all the structural engineers say, "yes, and your point is?" Protests of impossibility are, as a rule, wrong. The cell phone calls were received, and therefore, it is possible. That's all there is to it.

2. These supposed highjackers never were trained to fly 757/767's; how did they miraculously fly the planes and turn the plane around and find NYC. BEFORE THE HIGHJACKING, THE REAL PILOTS DIDN'T ANNOUNCE WHERE THEY specifically WERE.

I don't know. Why don't you ask them? Again, it's obviously not impossible, because it was done.

3. WHY DIDN'T ANY OF THE PASSENGERS make a move on the highjackers, when they were only armed with 2" knives? How did the Government know they only had 2" Knives?

Um, because of those cell phone calls?

And as for why they didn't make a move, the answer, of course, is that on flight 93 they did make a move. And it's also well-documented that they did so because they were told of the fate of the other three planes, and therefore realized that the old protocol of nonresistance was the wrong thing to do.

Anything else I can teach you?

THANK YOU FOR ONCE AGAIN FALLING INTO MY TRAP, that I predicted to myself would proove, that ALL your so called "PROOF" 9/11 "was a real attack by terrorists", is nothing, but a constant reption of what, the Gov's "Official" story is, CGW, 1. If you don't know who to fly a 757/767 your CAN'T FLY IT PERIOD. 2. CELL PHONES don't work at 25,000 feet, which prooves, Those Hostages couldn't have called from the air, 3. The Highjackers didn't know where NYC was when they "supposedly" took over the plane, because it wasn't anounced to them, and the Gov has not/ nor can they explain, how they "supposedly" found NYC, (BTW the simple fact I have to explain this to you, does proove you can't analyse truth from outright lies, that CAN'T be true.) 4. Like I said before, when ever something tramatic happens, 20/20, 60 Minutes, Ophera, CNN, they all interview people, who were indirectly affected, by these things, ever notice these shows, NEVER interviewd, 1. they people who "Supposedly" TOOK THEY TICKETS AT THE "CHECK IN STATIONS" from the "socalled" terrorists, they never interviewd, people who would passed or stood next to they terrorists?, you know why? BECAUSE those men where NEVER at those airports, thats why! Everyone, look at CGW's answers abouve notice when I asked these sipmle scientific answes, about cell phones, not being able to fly 757/767's her answers were "JUST BELIEVE THE Gov's story, BTW if they don't blow up a nuke and blame the Arabs before summer, the biggest discussion on 9/11 inside job will happen this summer, Alex Jones is proud to announce that he is holding the biggest 9/11 Truth Conference ever inLos Angeles, CA this June. The event will feature presentations by highly respected scholars and government insiders, surprise guests, plus powerful documentary film screenings covering 9/11 & the Neo-Con Agenda! All this and the PREMIERE of Alex Jones' newest and most startling film to date." http://69.93.122.250/%7Eamerican/ "Former top economist for George W. Bush's Labor Department, accused the Bush administration of orchestrating the 9/11 attacks" : http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=4511

[CGW]

1. If you don't know who to fly a 757/767 your CAN'T FLY IT PERIOD.

Again-- who are you to say? YOu can't prove that this is true, after all.

2. CELL PHONES don't work at 25,000 feet, which prooves, Those Hostages couldn't have called from the air,

Who are you to say? If they did call, then it does work. End of argument.

3. The Highjackers didn't know where NYC was when they "supposedly" took over the plane, because it wasn't anounced to them, and the Gov has not/ nor can they explain, how they "supposedly" found NYC, (BTW the simple fact I have to explain this to you, does proove you can't analyse truth from outright lies, that CAN'T be true.)

According to you, there weren't any hijackers, so they couldn't have "not known" where they were because a pilot who wasn't there either didn't announce somethin on a flight that didn't take place. Except, of course, that the flights did take place. People whose names are known got on airliners which no longer exist, and all those planes don't exist either. So it's rather a reach to talk about how the hijackers didn't do something when there's nobody around to testify to the fact.

What it comes down to again is that they did do it, so celarly there must have been a way.

4. Like I said before, when ever something tramatic happens, 20/20, 60 Minutes, Ophera, CNN, they all interview people, who were indirectly affected, by these things, ever notice these shows, NEVER interviewd,

Actually, I don't watch these shows.

1. they people who "Supposedly" TOOK THEY TICKETS AT THE "CHECK IN STATIONS" from the "socalled" terrorists, they never interviewd, people who would passed or stood next to they terrorists?, you know why? BECAUSE those men where NEVER at those airports, thats why!

Actually, I did see pictures taken by security cameras of the hijackers passing through security at the airports in question, so, well you're dead wrong.

But actually I wouldn't ever take your word that no such interviews took place. Mostly what I've found is that you'll believe any idiot site.

[ICONOPHILI]

1. If you don't know who to fly a 757/767 your CAN'T FLY IT PERIOD.

Again-- who are you to say? YOu can't prove that this is true, after all.

2. CELL PHONES don't work at 25,000 feet, which prooves, Those Hostages couldn't have called from the air,

Who are you to say? If they did call, then it does work. End of argument.

3. The Highjackers didn't know where NYC was when they "supposedly" took over the plane, because it wasn't anounced to them, and the Gov has not/ nor can they explain, how they "supposedly" found NYC, (BTW the simple fact I have to explain this to you, does proove you can't analyse truth from outright lies, that CAN'T be true.)

According to you, there weren't any hijackers, so they couldn't have "not known" where they were because a pilot who wasn't there either didn't announce somethin on a flight that didn't take place. Except, of course, that the flights did take place. People whose names are known got on airliners which no longer exist, and all those planes don't exist either. So it's rather a reach to talk about how the hijackers didn't do something when there's nobody around to testify to the fact.

What it comes down to again is that they did do it, so celarly there must have been a way.

4. Like I said before, when ever something tramatic happens, 20/20, 60 Minutes, Ophera, CNN, they all interview people, who were indirectly affected, by these things, ever notice these shows, NEVER interviewd,

Actually, I don't watch these shows.

1. they people who "Supposedly" TOOK THEY TICKETS AT THE "CHECK IN STATIONS" from the "socalled" terrorists, they never interviewd, people who would passed or stood next to they terrorists?, you know why? BECAUSE those men where NEVER at those airports, thats why!

Actually, I did see pictures taken by security cameras of the hijackers passing through security at the airports in question, so, well you're dead wrong.

But actually I wouldn't ever take your word that no such interviews took place. Mostly what I've found is that you'll believe any idiot site.

More traps that you've fallen into, I knew you would talk about the "socalled" tapes showing the highjackers, WHAT HIghjackers, 1. Security Cams at Airports especially Dulles, have DATES and Times on them, these didn't, why? = Because thats not the Highjackers at Dulles, Notice the pictures are TOO blurry to identify if it was Muhammed ATTAH & Friends