If You Leave the Faith...

[drewmeister2]

Is there a quote from a Council or a Father that says if you leave the Faith, you are damned? I thought I remember reading one onetime, but I can't remember if I am right in what I read or not.

Thanks.

[TomS]

Is there a quote from a Council or a Father that says if you leave the Faith, you are damned?

?? Unless you believe in the concept of "once saved; always saved" Why wouldn't you be?

[AndyHolland]

There were some new martyrs in the Greek Orthodox Church who left the true faith for a time, going Muslim, and then coming back to be martyred. They are considered saints and are in the Synaxarion.

Besides, the moment we sin we leave the faith so to speak. And according to St. John Chrysostom we often sin within minutes of taking communion while in Church! If St. John saw this, and recognized it in himself, who are we but the worst of the worst?

We need a savior, Jesus.

andy holland
sinner

[Reader Nicholas]

I believe St. Ignatius Brianchaninov said something like that but am not 100%. There was a pamphlet YEARS ago called "Will The Heterodox Be Saved" that had the quote in it.

Nicholas Trahan

[Reader Nicholas]

Hi Guys!

Found the proper author and full quote. From the pamphlet "Will the Heterodox be saved" comes the quote by St. Theophan the Recluse:

"....I will tell you one thing however: should you, being Orthodox, and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy and enter a different Faith, you will lose your soul forever."

Question: I wonder how this applies to what was once ROCOR.

Nicholas Trahan

[Ekaterina]

Nicholas Trahan wrote:

....I will tell you one thing however: should you, being Orthodox, and possessing the Truth in its fullness, betray Orthodoxy and enter a different Faith, you will lose your soul forever."
Question: I wonder how this applies to what was once ROCOR.

Considering nothing had been decided and that everyone is reading their own judgement into what has or has not been done..........You are very quick to condemn your brother and to consign him to hades. Be careful that your judgement for your brother is not the one that you will suffer.

Katya

[Ekaterina]

This said it best for me.................

To: orthodox-synod@yahoogroups.com
From: "Philip Silouan Thompson" <>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 15:59:13 -0000
Subject: [orthodox-synod] Re: ROCOR/MP Next Steps

morechoff@... writes:
Is everything going to be status quo for years?

variorum@... wrote: It seems as though it will, doesn't it? The Sobor turned out to be a great tempest in a teacup...Such buildup! Such expectations! So much money spent! And for what? A resolution which says nothing...

Philip responded:

Were you hoping for a resolution instructing our hierarchs to g concelebrate with MP clergy on such-and-such a day? That wasn't the point of this exercise. What it succeeded in doing is exactly what many of us were hoping for: The All-Diaspora Council expressed the mind and will of the people in the Russian Church Abroad.

"We... unanimously express our resoluteness to heal the wounds of division within the Russian Church—between her parts in the Fatherland and abroad. ...that in the appropriate time, the unity of the Russian Church will be restored... to serve together and to commune from one Chalice."

It's not the place of the All-Diaspora Council to dictate the schedule; "In the appropriate time" is a good qualifier, since it's our hierarchs who must make that determination.

Thanks to the All-Diaspora Council, no one can now say it's just a few vocal hierarchs or a minority in the Church Abroad that wants to move ahead toward concelebration; our voices have been heard openly. Now our hierarchs have a single, strong statement that we, the faithful, are behind them in this desire.

The problems and details haven't gone away. What has changed is that the Church Abroad has expressed its united will to do this thing. That may not have an obvious effect on questions of property ownership or other issues - but it means we acknowledge those issues are things to be resolved, not obstacles to prevent action.

The All-Diaspora Council did its job. Now, as our Church's regulations say, "The resolutions of these Sobors have the force of law and go into effect only upon confirmation by the Sobor of Bishops under the presidency of the First Hierarch of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia which should meet at the same time or immediately after the end of the extraordinary Church Sobor."

I'm looking forward myself to hearing what our hierarchs' next steps will be.

In Christ,
Reader Silouan
Walla Walla, Washington