Poll - Are the pious.....

[TomS]

For entertaining suspicions is wrong and it never allows the mind to be at peace. This is all I have to say about falsehood in the mind. St. Dorotheos of Gaza.

Yes. Let us remain in ignorance. That is much more pious.

[GOCPriestMark]

If your piety is an outward expression then you are doing something wrong.

. . and . .

Outward expressions are merely pride showing through.

Are you saying something physical, such as making the sign of the cross, is wrong and a show of pride?

[Liudmilla]

Fr Mark wrote:

Are you saying something physical, such as making the sign of the cross, is wrong and a show of pride?

No, I am not talking about things like making the sign of the cross. I'm talking about overdoing things, making a show before others to emphasize your piety. The old women who crosses herself reverantly in the corner cannot be compared to the person who crosses themselves with a big show of doing a waist prostrations....so many that you get tired just watching the calistenics!. Not to mention that it's horribly distracting.

Milla

[jacqueline]

I'm talking about overdoing things, making a show before others to emphasize your piety. The old women who crosses herself reverantly in the corner cannot be compared to the person who crosses themselves with a big show of doing a waist prostrations....so many that you get tired just watching the calistenics!. Not to mention that it's horribly distracting.

Emphasizing one's own piety wouldn't be very pious. Without humility, no other virtue can be acquired.

[Liudmilla]

I think that part of the problem here is the "words" we are using. I would use the word devotion to God before I would use pious. To me there is a marked difference between these two words. The actions refered to by Fr Mark, i.e. crossing oneself, kissing the icons.... to me, would fall under devotion. Piety to me has always been tied to pride. It is always easy to fall into the sin of pride by our supposed piousness.

Many (many) years ago a Sunday school teacher asked our class if we thought we were good, pious Christians. Being the dumb pre-teens that we were, we answered yes. Well needless to say that that was the wrong answer. Ever since then I try to avoid that word, because I know the inherent danger to myself. We were taught that we should never boast of our piety either through action, or word. We were taught that making an outward "show" of your piety was also pride, because you were drawing attention to your supposed piousness.That is why I make the distinction between devotion and piety.

Milla

[The Apostate]

It seems to me that the pious are pious because they are loved by God. That, of course, doesn't mean that God loving people automatically makes them pious. Each of us has fre will. Their piety is their response to God's love for them but is only possible because of God's love for them.

I am very uncomfortable with the suggestion that people are loved because they are pious. Surely God's love of his creatures is not dependent on whether or not they are pious. That would imply that God, who is love, is restricted by our human actions.

[Myrrh]

Fr Mark wrote:

Are you saying something physical, such as making the sign of the cross, is wrong and a show of pride?

No, I am not talking about things like making the sign of the cross. I'm talking about overdoing things, making a show before others to emphasize your piety. The old women who crosses herself reverantly in the corner cannot be compared to the person who crosses themselves with a big show of doing a waist prostrations....so many that you get tired just watching the calistenics!. Not to mention that it's horribly distracting.

Milla

Or perhaps that's how they were taught to do it...?

Perhaps you should try it before being so critical, if nothing else it'll help take your mind off what others are doing.

Myrrh
Myrrh