Evolution and an Orthodox Patristic understanding of Genesis

Patristic theology, and traditional teachings of Orthodoxy from the Church fathers of apostolic times to the present. All forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


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What do you believe vis a vis Creationism vs. Darwinism?

I believe in creationism like the Holy Fathers and Bible teach

20
83%

I believe in Darwin's Theory of Evolution and think the Church Fathers were wrong

2
8%

I am not sure yet, I need to read more Patristics and scientific theories

2
8%
 
Total votes: 24

Pravoslavnik
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Correcting Multiple Errors and Misinterpretations

Post by Pravoslavnik »

"No length of time causes the specific characteristics of the animals to be corrupted or extinct, but, as if established just recently, nature, ever fresh, moves along with time." (Hexaemeron, IX, 2.)


Dear Joanna, Angela, Cyprian, C.V., et. al.;

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       So, if we accept St. Basil's [i]Hexaemeron[/i] as literally infallible--somewhat like the Roman Catholic concept of the Papacy--then the above text obviously indicates that no animal species have become extinct during the past 3.5 billion years of earth history.  Do any of you believe that any animal species have ever become extinct--e.g., Brontosaurae, Wolly Mammoths, etc.?

How literally infallible are the writings of St. Basil, including those that St. Augustine disagreed with?

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      The issue is not whether [b]you[/b] are truly Orthodox, or whether [b]I [/b]am truly Orthodox.  I will do you the courtesy of assuming, for the sake of argument, that you are truly Orthodox, like me.  It is whether Orthodox Christians can accept the truths of science--including those of paleobiology and geology-- as true, or whether they must accept the Protestant Fundamentalist misinterpretations of science and [i]Genesis[/i], as you do, in order to be considered truly Orthodox.  My position is that one can be fully Orthodox, and also accept the truths of science, since truth is an intercalated whole.

       There are clearly aspects of truth that are not delineated in Holy Scripture or in the writings of the Church Fathers.  For example, the Church does not tell me whether mitochondrial DNA comes from the maternal or paternal DNA in humans--such truth comes to us through scientific observation and study.  Joanna has asserted, earlier, that [b]all [/b]truth comes from scripture or the hagiography of the Church.  This is simply not true.  As for the Big Bang theory of cosmogeny--it is consistent with Orthodox theology, which asserts that God created the universe [i]ex nihilo[/i].  An Orthodox Christian can surely believe that God created the universe through the Big Bang, and also created complex life forms on earth through evolutionary mechanisms, which elegantly explain the paleobiological data.

      I will reiterate. The so-called conflict between science and Christianity is a fictitious creation of two narrow-minded groups; [i]some[/i] arrogant, atheistic scientists, like Stephen Jay Gould, and [i]some [/i]Fundamentalist Protestants, Catholics, and  Orthodox Christians.  Both of these groups have rigid, inaccurate perceptions of either science or true Christianity.  People in both groups are very resistant to learning and changing their paradigms to incorporate other aspects of truth.
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joasia
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Post by joasia »

An Orthodox Christian can surely believe that God created the universe through the Big Bang, and also created complex life forms on earth through evolutionary mechanisms, which elegantly explain the paleobiological data.

Enough. This is ridiculous. Evolution is a lie. Believe what you want. But, you are wrong.

But, yes, I do agree that the lies of the evil one are always oh so elegant and eloquent. That is why so many souls fall for them.

Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. (Ps. 50)

Pravoslavnik
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Repeating Myself All Over Again

Post by Pravoslavnik »

I waited patiently for Joanna and she did not hear me...

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ChristosVoskrese
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Post by ChristosVoskrese »

Dear Pravoslavnik and stumbler,

Evolution is the enemy of Christianity - it was created to explain how life originiated without God.

It is a fallacy to believe that facts speak for themselves—they are always interpreted according to a framework. The framework behind the evolutionists’ interpretation is naturalism—it is assumed that things made themselves, that no divine intervention has happened, and that God has not revealed to us knowledge about the past.
Evolution is a deduction from this assumption, and it is essentially the idea that things made themselves. It includes these unproven ideas: nothing gave rise to something at an alleged ‘big bang,’ non-living matter gave rise to life, single-celled organisms gave rise to many-celled organisms, invertebrates gave rise to vertebrates, ape-like creatures gave rise to man, non-intelligent and amoral matter gave rise to intelligence and morality, man’s yearnings gave rise to religions, etc.

Read this online book and you will see that there is no evidence to support evolution. It is accepted because people don't want to believe in God, because then they can set their own moral standards, among many other things.

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ChristosVoskrese
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Post by ChristosVoskrese »

"...And if one thinks that from a human being, the Most Holy Theotokos, Christ was born! Then what we are saying is that a monkey was an ancestor of Christ? What blasphemy!!" --Elder Paisios of Mount Athos

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ANGELA
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Post by ANGELA »

Dear Provaslavnik,

I don't say much like my fellow believers as above, Joanna, Christos Voskrese,etc as they know a lot more than me, plus I don't know a lot about the theological aspect of our faith, but I know this much:

I'm just putting my 2cents worth, (Australian, that we don't have any more) and say that you are only confusing yourself. You are a believer in our orthodox faith, or you are not. You either side with our Lord Jesus or with the devil. You cannot have two beliefs!!! There are two roads the narrow or the broad. You choose.

Knock and the door will be open etc. But you must make sure that you are knocking on the right door!

PS Also what you have written how Joanna has not heard you, seems to me that others have heard, but you do not want to hear.

In Christ
Angela+++

Last edited by ANGELA on Mon 4 June 2007 7:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
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ChristosVoskrese
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Post by ChristosVoskrese »

No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. (Luke 16:13)

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