Evolution and an Orthodox Patristic understanding of Genesis

Patristic theology, and traditional teachings of Orthodoxy from the Church fathers of apostolic times to the present. All forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


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What do you believe vis a vis Creationism vs. Darwinism?

I believe in creationism like the Holy Fathers and Bible teach

20
83%

I believe in Darwin's Theory of Evolution and think the Church Fathers were wrong

2
8%

I am not sure yet, I need to read more Patristics and scientific theories

2
8%
 
Total votes: 24

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jckstraw72
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Post by jckstraw72 »

In your case, if I were a scientist I would hypothesize from the evidence available to me that there was a different form of thinking you used before you were exposed to Protestant ideas.

seriously, have you ever read what the Fathers have to say about Genesis? you would apparently think they are Protestants.

So science CAN account for catastrophes and cataclysms.

how does uniformitarianism account for such things? for instance with carbon dating, it must be assumed that the half-life of carbon has always been the same -- but theres no way of proving that. it could have either had uniform half-lives, or the half-lives could have changed, but theres no way of knowing that. all we know is how much carbon is there now, and how much a half-life is now.

from wikipedia regarding half-lives:

A quantity is said to be subject to exponential decay if it decreases at a rate proportional to its value. Symbolically, this can be expressed as the following differential equation, where N is the quantity and λ is a positive number called the decay constant:

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\frac{dN}{dt} = -\lambda N.

The solution to this equation is:

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N(t) = N_0 e^{-\lambda t}. \,

Here N(t) is the quantity at time t, and N0 = N(0) is the (initial) quantity, at time t=0.

This is the form of the equation that is most commonly used to describe exponential decay. The constant of integration N0 denotes the original quantity at t = 0. (The notation λ for the decay constant is a remnant of the usual notation for an eigenvalue. In this case, λ is the eigenvalue of the opposite of the differentiation operator with N(t) as the corresponding eigenfunction).

now how do they know the initial quantity? perhaps more assumptions?

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jckstraw72
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Post by jckstraw72 »

from http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/carbon-dating.htm

Carbon Dating - The Controversy
Carbon dating is controversial for a couple of reasons. First of all, it's predicated upon a set of questionable assumptions. We have to assume, for example, that the rate of decay (that is, a 5,730 year half-life) has remained constant throughout the unobservable past. However, there is strong evidence which suggests that radioactive decay may have been greatly accelerated in the unobservable past.1 We must also assume that the ratio of C-12 to C-14 in the atmosphere has remained constant throughout the unobservable past (so we can know what the ratio was at the time of the specimen's death). And yet we know that "radiocarbon is forming 28-37% faster than it is decaying,"2 which means it hasn't yet reached equilibrium, which means the ratio is higher today than it was in the unobservable past. We also know that the ratio decreased during the industrial revolution due to the dramatic increase of CO2 produced by factories. This man-made fluctuation wasn't a natural occurrence, but it demonstrates the fact that fluctuation is possible and that a period of natural upheaval upon the earth could greatly affect the ratio. Volcanoes spew out CO2 which could just as effectively decrease the ratio. Specimens which lived and died during a period of intense volcanism would appear older than they really are if they were dated using this technique. The ratio can further be affected by C-14 production rates in the atmosphere, which in turn is affected by the amount of cosmic rays penetrating the earth's atmosphere. The amount of cosmic rays penetrating the earth's atmosphere is itself affected by things like the earth's magnetic field which deflects cosmic rays. Precise measurements taken over the last 140 years have shown a steady decay in the strength of the earth's magnetic field. This means there's been a steady increase in radiocarbon production (which would increase the ratio).

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TomS
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Post by TomS »

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Constantine
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Post by Constantine »

I hope you actually dont believe garbage like that.

Constantine

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TomS
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Post by TomS »

Mr.C wrote:

I hope you actually dont believe garbage like that.

Constantine

Of course not, there is no way humankind will de-evolve!

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Constantine
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Post by Constantine »

So you believe that humans evolved?

Constantine

Pravoslavnik
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Dating with Radioisotopes

Post by Pravoslavnik »

Jackstrw,

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   There are some potential sources of error with carbon dating, as your post mentions, but there is also a remarkable convergence about the age of the earth and our solar system that derives from the presence and absence of known radioisotopes, together with their half-lives of decay.  There are also ways of analyzing ratios of some of these substances--like strontium-rubidium--which can give fairly precise dating of the earth's probable age.  Carbon dating is realy useful only for organic matter from relatively recent years in earth's history. The strontium-rubidium data gives a fairly consistent age of about 3.5 billion years for the earth's crust.

   To Mr. C. I would ask first whether he believes the evidence that the hominid species Homo Erectus was very successful on the earth for almost one million years before the appearance and rapid proliferation of Homo Sapiens.  Does Mr. C believe in the former existence of the hominid Neanderthals?  Is he aware that there is a contiuum of shared DNA in the genomes of our closest survivng primate relatives, and that the chimpanzee has fully 98% of our human DNA.  It is a long evolutionary leap from frog to a dog..but perhaps not so "far" to leap from our distant mutual ancestors like the H. Erectus to H. Sapiens...The earth had billions of years to host genetic variations in many rapidly reproducing organisms.
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