Bishop Agafangel opens his "LiveJournal"

[Anastasios]

Our Synod recognizes Agafangel as an Orthodox bishop. Please watch the hyperbole.

Dear Anastasios,
Seeing this begs the question, "Does your synod also recognize Metropolitan Kyprianos of Oropos and Fili as an Orthodox Bishop?"
I ask this because it appears that Bp. Agathangel's people do.
http://ruschurchabroad.com/references.htm
http://ruschurchabroad.com/engreferences.htm

No, we don't. Metropolitan Cyprian was deposed by the Holy Synod of the True Orthodox Church of Greece. What some of our bishops told Bishop Agafangel was that we would seek relations with him but only if he ceased relations with Metropolitan Cyprian.

[GOCTheophan]

Bishop Agafangel does have a website in English

http://ruschurchabroad.com/engindex.htm

Fr. Gregory Williams in Tennessee (St. John of Kronstadt Press) is the administrator for North America.

The apostate Agafangel encouraged the "former" Communists of the Ukranian state not to give legal recognition to the part of ROCOR that stayed loyal to Met Vitaly and other True Orthodox groups. Given this
surely a thread about this enemny of Christ and His Church should be in the World Orthodox section?

Theophan.

Our Synod recognizes Agafangel as an Orthodox bishop. Please watch the hyperbole.

Whatever I think about the Kyprianites I would not ask a secular state to harass and persecute them....Would you do so even of OCA for example? Possibly but I doubt it. He is an enemny of the Church.

Does our Synod know enough about this man? Have they stated that clearly he is an Orthodox Bishop and we must regard him as such? Certainly the monastery of Esiphigmenou believes that he fell away from the Church 6 or 7 years ago.

I myself only found this out about Agafangel from the sister of a priest in Russia over the weekend. I am sure if I was to look more deeply into this man other things would emerge.

Theophan.

[GOCTheophan]

GOCTheophan,

Code: Select all

    Can you please clarify this criticism of dissenting ROCOR Bishop Agafangel?  I have been in the ROCOR for many years, and never fully understood the events surrounding the retirement of former ROCOR Metropolitan Vitaly (Ustinov.)  When and how did the Ukrainian ROCOR Bishop Agafangel betray the Orthodox Church?  As I recall, Metropolitan Vitaly retired, and Metropolitan Laurus Skurla was then chosen as his successor by our ROCOR Synod.  Are you saying that Bishop Agafangel sinned against the Church by remaining in the ROCOR after the retirement of Metropolitan Vitaly?  If so, many of us have also sinned against the Holy Church by doing so, however unwittingly.  When, and how, should we in the ROCOR have known that our Synod was intending to draft and accept the Act of Canonical Communion with the Moscow Patriarchate?  I can assure you that I was not certain that this would actually happen until a few months ago.  Perhaps we should all have been more clairvoyant.[/quote]

Agafangel sinned aganist the Church by encouraging the secular state made up of former Communists to persecute those who stayed loyal to Metropolitian Vitaly in ROCOR and the Catacombniks. Even if you do not agree with ROCiE or True ROCOR or whatever you want to call them that action is still in my opinion inexcusable.

Theophan.

[GOCTheophan]

Our Synod recognizes Agafangel as an Orthodox bishop. Please watch the hyperbole.

Dear Anastasios,
Seeing this begs the question, "Does your synod also recognize Metropolitan Kyprianos of Oropos and Fili as an Orthodox Bishop?"
I ask this because it appears that Bp. Agathangel's people do.
http://ruschurchabroad.com/references.htm
http://ruschurchabroad.com/engreferences.htm

Father Bless!

Often Greeks do not understand all the issues in the Russian Church and visa versa. Acting in ignorance or under false presumptions isnt apostasy. Agafangel and Kyprianos are apostates (Im sorry if that sounds harsh but calling a black cat black and not grey is all that it really amounts to). I dont believe that you can say the same of our Synod over the letter sent to Agafangel.

Theophan.

[GOCTheophan]

Our Synod recognizes Agafangel as an Orthodox bishop. Please watch the hyperbole.

Dear Anastasios,
Seeing this begs the question, "Does your synod also recognize Metropolitan Kyprianos of Oropos and Fili as an Orthodox Bishop?"
I ask this because it appears that Bp. Agathangel's people do.
http://ruschurchabroad.com/references.htm
http://ruschurchabroad.com/engreferences.htm

No, we don't. Metropolitan Cyprian was deposed by the Holy Synod of the True Orthodox Church of Greece. What some of our bishops told Bishop Agafangel was that we would seek relations with him but only if he ceased relations with Metropolitan Cyprian.

Cyprian was deposed for heresy.

I hope that Agafangel would also have to repent of that heresy before we would have relations with him and not just break with the Kyrpianos himself.

Remember that St Basil the Great recognised as Orthodox a Bishop who was a heretic without becoming a heretic himself. Agafangel is not an Orthodox Bishop no matter who says otherwise.

Theophan.

[GOCTheophan]

What it comes down to is this. There needs to be a united Russian Church and all this bickering is a bunch of garbage. Bp. Agafangel IMO shouldn't even be talking to Greeks but rather to Russians in the hope of forming a Russian Church that at least has the Catacombniks and the Church Abroad in communion with each other. The best thing we can do though, is pray for him and all the other Russian bishops that they makes the right decision and that all this fighting over trivial issues can stop.

Dear Drewmeister,

God Bless you and if only things were as you see them...However you dont understand the "Spiritual legacy" of ROCOR which is why Agafangel would NEVER turn to ROAC or the Seraphima-Gennadites. Even ROCiE though filled with the Grace of the Holy Spirit has not been able to humble itself enough to seriously persue the unity of all Russian Orthodox believers. What hope has Agafangel?

Theophan.

[catechuman]

GOCTheophan,

Code: Select all

    Can you please clarify this criticism of dissenting ROCOR Bishop Agafangel?  I have been in the ROCOR for many years, and never fully understood the events surrounding the retirement of former ROCOR Metropolitan Vitaly (Ustinov.)  When and how did the Ukrainian ROCOR Bishop Agafangel betray the Orthodox Church?  As I recall, Metropolitan Vitaly retired, and Metropolitan Laurus Skurla was then chosen as his successor by our ROCOR Synod.  Are you saying that Bishop Agafangel sinned against the Church by remaining in the ROCOR after the retirement of Metropolitan Vitaly?  If so, many of us have also sinned against the Holy Church by doing so, however unwittingly.  When, and how, should we in the ROCOR have known that our Synod was intending to draft and accept the Act of Canonical Communion with the Moscow Patriarchate?  I can assure you that I was not certain that this would actually happen until a few months ago.  Perhaps we should all have been more clairvoyant.[/quote]

Agafangel sinned aganist the Church by encouraging the secular state made up of former Communists to persecute those who stayed loyal to Metropolitian Vitaly in ROCOR and the Catacombniks.
Theophan.

Thanks for the info Theophan.

Can you send me the exact statement of Bishop Agafangel encouraging what out you outline above?

Agafangel is not an Orthodox Bishop no matter who says otherwise.

No matter even if they are your own Hierarchs? In the GOC letter to + Agafangel, +Chrysostomos and his Holy Synod all address him as "His Eminence Agafangel, Bishop of Taurida and Odessa". They all signed this letter http://ruschurchabroad.com/eng070807.htm
yet by your reasoning they are all wrong on this matter?