The Affliction of Scrupulosity

[Barbara]

By "these men" did you mean The Terrible Duo ?
We don't WANT them here !

Some of the monks should consider True Orthodox jurisdictions before getting too settled at Manton,
which could be dis-MANT-led - probably SHOULD be entirely suppressed.

Start out from scratch with TRUE monks. Not "enablers" - I hate that word from I think those 12-steps
but I guess appropriate for abbot mel's area of expertise [addiction] -
of the NOTORIOUS Bishop Benjamin - now Archbishop unbelievably - of the OCA's Diocese of West.

[Matthew]

Yes, I mean those men who have fallen into such evil delusions. How can we not hope and pray that by a true repentance they might win the Kingdom and that is only available through the One True Church. So if we would desire their salvation, as most certainly the Lord Jesus Christ does, then they also must come to the True Church. On the other hand, if they will not truly repent, then it would be truly better if they never came among us.

[Maria]

Yes, I mean those men who have fallen into such evil delusions. How can we not hope and pray that by a true repentance they might win the Kingdom and that is only available through the One True Church. So if we would desire their salvation, as most certainly the Lord Jesus Christ does, then they also must come to the True Church. On the other hand, if they will not truly repent, then it would be truly better if they never came among us.

True, we can only hope for true repentance, but we do not need any more false shepherds or wolves among us especially as seen in the fiasco of the OCA Synod in forcing the retirement of Met. Jonah.

http://www.monomakhos.com/wp-content/up ... 012-v1.pdf

[Barbara]

Those are definitely wolves / false shepherds !

I hope the Orthodox World never hears from them again --

Maria wrote this BRILLIANT observation [ I had not read the thread carefully ]

"From what I have read, scrupulosity seems to be related to the anxiety-related obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD). Perhaps that is why people who are mentally ill become so dependent on their modernistic and humanistic mental health professionals."

I am just shocked at how people from every quarter blab about "my therapist told me this, my therapist showed me how I was not
viewing x situation in my family from [the therapist's ] viewpoint, etc."

As though a therapist were a clairvoyant ELDER !
They give these people UNLIMITED POWER, yet nearly all therapists I am SURE are atheist / agnostic.

Few Americans today are going to search for one who is authentically Orthodox.

I mean, VERY few !

What do they end up with then ? I think : possession ! Spending time in an office for hours over the course of their "therapy"
with some stranger who is afflicted with probably MANY dark spirits himself or herself ?
Guess what happens? The demons leap over to the recipient of "therapy", adding onto the large number which probably
already congregate in the environs of that person.

If they are so needy that they THINK they need a secular "counselor", surely they are infested already by various sorts of devils.

Why? Because people who have emotional voids and DEEP VACUUMS insides themselves take the easy way out.
They fill their vacuums with the inspirations of devils. They don't have any taboos against dealing with any sort
of spirit as long as it looks cozy and doesn't criticize them.

So they attract demons-in-diguise who become so enmeshed that the person often has no clue that they are manipulated
easily by forces from evil.

I personally wouldn't have a single "therapist" for an acquaintance even - they make me shudder.

Usually they are riddled with so many
of their own problems that that is why they chose that field. I know people like this.

Now there probably are a few godly souls in the field. But finding them for an average person would be like
a needle in a haystack. It would never occur to them to seek a therapist who is Orthodox or Catholic.
So many psychologists and psychiatrists are Jewish; if their parents were from Russia or Ukraine,
they are very hostile to Russian Orthodoxy .

[Matthew]

I don't see how anything I said could be taken as a suggestion that we need more false shepherds among us! Is it not obvious that such a thing is entirely against my own convictions? and if it is obvious, why the need to say it? I'm not angry, but it just seems like a bizarre thing to say, when obviously that was not what I was saying. The repentant who enter on their knees, and take up a lowly humble place are always welcome in the Spiritual Hospital of the Church. I certainly think, too, that a sign of a true penitent from among the clergy, such as the characters we are talking about who are clergy, would be for them to avoid and refuse taking up a position of leadership or authority of any kind, but rather they would of necessity live out their lives as simple monks only.

[Revnitel]

I must have missed something...Isn't scrupulosity a papal concept? To them it is a sin and a mockery of Confession. From my understanding any Confession without a repentant heart is sinful, whether or not we list all our errors, remembered or "possible", but it is good to try and remember all our sins and get anointed for the ones we fail to remember when the Church offers chrism.

[Matthew]

There are cases, in my opinion, when what the Catholics would term a case of "scrupulosity", an Orthodox confessor would view as a healthy fear of God leading to conscientious fear. However, there is certainly an unhealthy extreme and as we have noted this is generally found in people of a Western confession, and for the greater part found among Orthodox believers who are converts from the Western confessions. Hence, it seems to be an aberration and harmful psychological condition produced by faulty Western concepts and theology.