Icxypion wrote:Have you seen him speak also? What were your impressions of the man at the time?
I have been to several of his public lectures. He carefully guards his tongue, so his speeches contain nothing obviously heretical. However, the problem lies in his association as a Bishop under the EP. Thus, he is not a part of us.
Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.
Yes, it is the same with many of the ecumenists I have encountered whilst studying at university in Religious Studies. The ecumenists are very good with their tongues, very shrewd, and often very self controlled. Especially, they are able to maintain a certain air of amicability, of warmth to win over their prey to their "psychological drug culture" or euphoria of "I'm OK, You're OK" and "All flesh shall be saved." How rosy the world looks when the only heresy is the idea that such a thing as heresy actually substantively exists.
Icxypion wrote:Yes, it is the same with many of the ecumenists I have encountered whilst studying at university in Religious Studies. The ecumenists are very good with their tongues, very shrewd, and often very self controlled. Especially, they are able to maintain a certain air of amicability, of warmth to win over their prey to their "psychological drug culture" or euphoria of "I'm OK, You're OK" and "All flesh shall be saved." How rosy the world looks when the only heresy is the idea that such a thing as heresy actually substantively exists.
Wormwood would be so proud. Have you read C.S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters?
Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.
I did read them, about 20 years ago. I hadnt thought of any connexion between them and the subject, but I guess there is.
I am fond of the expression "give the devil his due". This means not to give in to the devil, but not to let him bait you into a fight you can't win.
I actually want to put in a good word for Metropolitan Kallistos, regarding his book "The Orthodox Church". There is a fine critical review of it on the website orthodoxinfo.com, but here I want to note that his discussion of the True Orthodox, while cursory, is not overly polemical. The first edition especially has good things to say about our attachment to tradition, but even the second one is not the kind of hostile screed you get from most World Orthodox.
Met Kallistos unfortunately has gotten more extreme in his ecumenist views over the years.
jgress wrote:...I want to note that his discussion of the True Orthodox, while cursory, is not overly polemical....Met Kallistos unfortunately has gotten more extreme in his ecumenist views over the years.
Yes, he says many excellent and memorable things. However, this is the genius of their unwitting deceptiveness. In the case of so many of these people, they are genuinely sincere, and to a greater extent, do not know their own erroneous state. In the case of Kallistos Ware, he definitely has become more extreme about "women's issues" -- their ordination, for example. And her certainly has no objection to unia with Rome on the grounds that Rome is heretical since he either does not really believe they are heretics, or at least that heresy does not drive out grace and poses no serious threat to salvation. In either case, he is gravely mistaken.
OK, I take your points. I would be careful about actively looking for heresies in everything he says, which is a trap I think we can often fall into. Since many of these ecumenists choose their words carefully, I often feel like it's a challenge to pick out anything overtly heretical. It doesn't help that ecumenism is so nebulous. You can actually get the same thing with heretics of old, like Severus of Antioch: they just keep redefining all the terms so that you can't point the finger at anything (try arguing with a Monophysite now!).
At some point, you need to step back and not get sucked in to the quicksand. I am usually satisfied with the bad feelings I have about all the ecumenical activities going on. They don't feel right, and they certainly don't make sense for a body, such as the Church, that claims to offer the Truth. If conservative NCists feel the need to come up with all their convoluted arguments as to why Patriarch Bartholomew isn't really a heretic, I am content to leave them to their delusion. Either they just don't feel it, as I do, in which case they're beyond my help, or they're actively suppressing that feeling, in which case, I hope, it's a matter of time before they come round, but still beyond my immediate help.