8th and 9th Ecumenical Councils

[Justin Kissel]

I thought it'd be interesting to have a thread on the 8th and 9th Ecumenical Councils. As I come across quotes and other relevant material I'm going to post it here, I invite everyone else to please do the same

"The hesychastic confict, as it was called, ended with the Councils which took place in Constantinople in 1341, 1346 and 1351. The Last Council, which 'justified' St. Gregory Palamas, proponent of the hesychastic life, is considered to be Ecumenical: 'We think that the Council of Constantinople in the time of Saint Gregory Palamas in 1351, judging at least on the basis of its great theological work, can be and deserves to be counted among the Ecumenical Councils of the Orthodox Church, to which it is in now way inferior as to the soteriological significance of its theology. This Council constitutes the proof of the continuing conciliarity of the Orthodox Church and of the living experience and theology concerning salvation in Christ' (Quoting: Athanasius Gievtits. Christ Beginning and End. p. 195. In Gk.)

...hesychasm [has] been 'justified' by the Council of Constantinople and consequently one who speaks against these things is no longer within the Orthodox tradition and at any rate creates preconditions for being cut off from its life." - Met. Hierotheos, Orthodox Psychotherapy: The Science of the Fathers, (Birth of the Theotokos Monastery, 1994), pp. 326-327, 330-331 (This quote can also be found online at this site)

[Justin Kissel]

"His teachings [ie. those of Saint Gregory Palamas] was confirmed by two councils held at Constantinople in 1341 and 1351, which, although local and not Ecumenical, yet possess a doctrinal authority in Orthodox theology scarcely inferior to the seven general councils themselves. But western Christendom has never officially recognized these two councils, although many western Christians personally accept the theology of Palamas" - Bishop Kallistos, The Orthodox Church (New Edition), (Penguin Books, 1997), p. 67

Later in the book, when discussing Orthodox doctrine, Bishop Kallistos lists two Councils in Constantinople (1341 and 1351) and an Encyclical Letter of Saint Photius (867) among those documents which are "chief Orthodox doctrinal statement[s]" since the Seventh Ecumenical Council (p. 203)

This "western Christendom" argument used in the above quote by Bishop Kallistos is very confusing to me. I find it difficult to understand how someone can say that a council has been given roughly the same theological/doctrinal weight as the Ecumenical Councils, but because "the west" hasn't affirmed it, it can't be Ecumenical? Using this line of thinking, we would be left with virtually no Ecumenical Councils to speak of. After all, if "the east" (Iraq, Armenia, India, etc.) and "the south" (much of Egypt, Ethiopia, etc.) didn't accept certain councils, by Bishop Kallistos' argument shouldn't they be considered non-Ecumenical? And if he is going to say that groups can leave the Church--that even entire geographical areas can go into apostasy and heresy--and that this does not effect the ability of the Church to remain whole and make ecumenical decisions, then what prevents the Photian and Palamite Councils being Ecumenical?

[Justin Kissel]

"When it became clear that the Franks were not going to retreat from these politico-doctrinal policies, the Romans [ie. Orthodox] accepted the challenge and condemned both the Filioque and the Frankish double position on icons at the Eighth Ecumenical Synod of 879 in Constantinople-New Rome.

From the Roman [ie. Orthodox] viewpoint, however, the Roman tradition of the Fathers was not only not terminated in the eighth century, but continued a vigorous existence in free Romania in the East, as well as within Arab-occupied areas. Present research is now leading to the conclusion that the Roman Patristic period extended right in tot he period of Ottoman rule, after the fall of Constantinople New Rome. This means that the Eighth Ecumenical Synod (879), under Photios, the so-called Palamite Synods of the fourteenth century, and the Synods of the Roman Patriarchate during the Ottoman period, are all a continuation and an integral part of the history of Patristic theology. It is also a continuation of the Roman Christian tradition, minus the Patriarchate of Old Rome, which, since 1009 after having been captured, ceased to be Roman and became a Frankish institution." - John S. Romanides, Franks, Romans, Feudalism and Doctrine, Part 3

[Justin Kissel]

"All who have reached glorification testify to the fact that "it is impossible to express God and even more impossible to conceive Him" because they know by their experience that there is no similarity whatsoever between the created and the uncreated. God is "unmoved mover" and "moved" and "neither one. nor oneness nor unity,. nor divinity... nor sonship, nor fatherhood, etc." in the experience of glorification. The Bible and dogmas are guides to and abolished during glorification. They are not ends in themselves and have nothing to do with metaphysics, either with analogia entis or with analogia fidei. This means that words and concepts which do not contradict the experience of glorification and which lead to purification and illumination of the heart and glorification are Orthodox. Words and concepts which contradict glorification and lead away from cure and perfection in Christ are heretical. This is the key to the decisions of all Seven Roman Ecumenical Councils as well as that of the Eighth of 879 and especially of the Ninth of 1341." - John S. Romanides, Church Synods and Civilization

[Justin Kissel]

There is lots of other stuff by Fr. John Romanides on the 8th and 9th Ecumenical Councils at the Romanity website, including discussion of the topic in Orthodox and Vatican Agreement as it relates to our relations with Catholics; and in Part 1 of his work Augustine Unknowingly Rejects the Doctrine of the Ecumenical Councils Concerning the Old Testament Lord of Glory Incarnate and His Vatican and Protestant Followers Do the Same, Part 1 being subtitled: Augustine's Teachings Which Were condemned As Those of Barlaam the Calabrian By the Ninth Ecumenical Council of 1351.

[Justin Kissel]

Some more reading material:

Nine Orthodox Ecumenical Synods (Orchid Land Publications)

Met. Hierotheos, The Mind of the Orthodox Church, Chapter 9: The Synodikon of Orthodoxy

[Julianna]

So you've accepted the Council numbers as 9 rather than the more popular 7?