Upcoming Fr J Suaidan v Dyer ?

[Barbara]

Sorry to be so ignorant all the time, but what's THIS about ?
Will the debate take place ? Sounds like Fr Joseph vs Jay Dyer

That should be REALLY GREAT to see !

Who is the host in the short clip -- and likely also for that debate ?
Bacground of his ?
Thanks, anyone !

[eish]

Not going to happen. That's kinda the point, to prove that he won't show up.

Jay Dyer runs this scam of being a big brained debate champion who supposedly can't be beaten by anyone, in which anyone who wishes to challenge him must first argue with his Discord group and get approved from there. He's done it for years. Then he only allows on a couple of very persistent but also non-threatening people. From that he loudly proclaims that nobody has an answer to his perfect arguments.

He antagonises most potential opponents by hurling insults at them until they block him on social media (go read his Twitter posts if you don't believe me), which conveniently makes it so that they will never challenge him nor hear his challenges. Lately I have come to the conclusion that even the insults are a calculated move to avoid having to defend his position. He also makes a constant point of not only hurling insults directly at people, but loudly complaining about them and doing awful “comedy” about them in unrelated YT videos.

He has all TO kicked off his Discord server on the spot, and refuses to discuss the topic or hear any challenges, which allows him to claim to be undefeated.

The naïve boys who follow him believe that he is this great debate champion and that everyone who calls him out is too scared to debate him, which is the exact opposite of the truth. He won't debate them.

If it ever did that would be a lot of fun for us, but his fanboys would still think he “won.” So really he doesn't even have anything to lose--those poor kids think that a good argument means whatever Jay tells them it means.

[Barbara]

OHHH ! I had NO Idea. I understood that Jay Dyer was highly obnoxious. But i didn't realize he was THIS cowardly, as well as almost empty in terms of real Orthodox depth.

Sounds like Jay Dyer is just covering up that inconvenient fact ??

Thanks so much for explaining to me. I realize i am the slow one on here, but it helps a lot to get all these puzzles solved by you all who are aware and up to date.

Yes, I should look at Jay Dyer's posts on X. I never would think about it normally. Just to see who he really is. Obviously a loudmouth...

So what type of insults does he level at people ? Really mean allegations specific to THEM - or just the same general disparaging comment dished out to most everybody ?

That's an abusive tactic, by the way. Classic, in fact.

[NektariosLopez]

OHHH ! I had NO Idea. I understood that Jay Dyer was highly obnoxious. But i didn't realize he was THIS cowardly, as well as almost empty in terms of real Orthodox depth.

Sounds like Jay Dyer is just covering up that inconvenient fact ??

Thanks so much for explaining to me. I realize i am the slow one on here, but it helps a lot to get all these puzzles solved by you all who are aware and up to date.

Yes, I should look at Jay Dyer's posts on X. I never would think about it normally. Just to see who he really is. Obviously a loudmouth...

So what type of insults does he level at people ? Really mean allegations specific to THEM - or just the same general disparaging comment dished out to most everybody ?

That's an abusive tactic, by the way. Classic, in fact.

When I use to have a discord account, I was in his server and I can recall how he would shut down any discussion about True Orthodoxy and if any Orthodox Christian (I mean those under Orthodox confessing bishops not world orthodox) popped into the server, they most likely get banned or kicked if they decided to argue against world orthodox narratives. When he had the last conversation with Fr Joseph, after he became frustrated with him because his attempt at a "gotcha" backfired, he booted him and even made a snarky comment of "ok you won" or something to that effect but afterwards told his moderators to automatically boot True Orthodox from the servers if they are known.
The funny thing is that even though he claims that TO discussions and debates are beneath him, he has no problem with "open debates" and allowing low tier and bad faith arguments from protestants, atheists, muslims, pagans etc. In fact, he had a moderated debate on the Crucible youtube channel with some protestant, and nothing personal against the protestant, but had horrible arguments and couldn't understand some of aspects of the debate. It seemed like Jay Dyer was desperate for some air time yet somehow all TO are automatically disqualified from debates with him. I have to imagine that all the "open debates" with various people contributes highly to youtube clips showing how much he "dunks" on every challenger, as long as he controls who can challenge him.

[eish]

So what type of insults does he level at people ? Really mean allegations specific to THEM - or just the same general disparaging comment dished out to most everybody ?

I rarely read anything twitter-related, which is where most of the action is. But I can give you some examples.

Dyer does “impressions” of people in his YT videos. He “sings” (and I use the term loosely) his little made up songs in which he plays the role of that person and presents what would loosely be considered a caricature of the person or his ideas. He routinely mocks people by altering their names--replacing various sounds--to associate them with some or other bad thing. Now it might have been childish but understandable mockery if the people were associated with the positions that he associates them with, but the problem is that usually they are not. For example, take his spat with Michael Witcoff. (For context, Dyer and his ilk were referring to the covid scam as the “coof”, which I understand during that censorship so their videos didn't get automatically taken down.) When Witcoff disagreed with Dyer's philosophical position, Dyer went on a massive tirade on twitter and YT bashing “Witcoof” and his “anti-intellectual” friends, and telling his orthobros not to listen to anything they say.

Another example is Taylor Marshal, a Roman Catholic apologist who (like many online apologists) lives rent-free in Dyer's head. At a time when I was looking into then-current events with political subversion in the Roman Catholic space, I listened to a substantial amount of Marshal's videos and associated people. I disagree with him, but he's not a rude guy IME. Never spent his time complaining about Dyerites or anything like that. He just complained a lot about Pope Francis and chomo priests. At the same time I checked out some of Dyer's videos and in every single video he would be complaining about Marshal. How the guy couldn't answer his all-powerful arguments, how the guy blocked him on twitter because he had no answer (leaving out how insanely rude he is to these people before they block him), bla bla bla. He teaches the kids who listen to his show that everyone is just too afraid to debate him, and that is why when Fr. Joseph (or anyone) mentions it, they show up in the comments posting “Debate Jay, coward!” and “Why don't you debate Jay, then!” They think it's real.

The worst example (that I saw) was his pet deacon Fr. Ananias's debate with a protestant. Fr. Ananias--a philosophy professor himself--had just recently joined their gang and been instructed in Dyer's method of debate. So they brought out their resident protestant apologist, a man by the name of Matt Slick. They basically claimed he was the only one still willing to debate but that is a fib. Matt, you should know, is someone who claims to be a Five Points Calvinist but does not know what the five points are. In other words he is non-threatening. Dyer was supposed to moderate. Instead of acting as a neutral moderator, he would chip in to help Fr. Ananias and even go so far as interrupting the debate so that he could insult the opponent. Literally name-calling him. It was extremely childish and unnecessary.

Naturally, Dyer refuses to debate other people on their own channels. He claims that they are trying to use his fame for exposure. Everyone who wants to debate him must do so on his own show, under his own control.

His debate tactic is a very simple ruse, from what I heard when I listened a few times some years ago. I can explain it like so: Jay claims that you must dig down to the foundations of a belief system in order to justify it. That before you can justify the position itself, you must justify the world-view which lies beneath. He absolutely refuses to engage with the real world and instead steers the discussion to how you can know that anything is real at all. This, he claims, leads to contradictions when you investigate any world-view founded on something other than Orthodox Christian doctrine (in the way Jay defines Orthodoxy).

So if someone, like say Matt Slick, wishes to challenge his views on Scripture, Jay will refuse and say that we must first justify the world-view before we can even get to that.

And that contradiction is the ruse: 1) Jay says that only world-view questions are allowed. 2) Jay says that discussions of doctrine are not allowed, only world-view. 3) Jay says that the only possibly true world-view is that based on his doctrine.

Jay attacks his opponent's world-view (Point 1). Jay claims that doctrine is his world-view (Point 3), but does not allow his doctrine to be attacked because it is not world view (Point 2). Therefore Jay does not have to defend anything and is automatically “correct” per the rules of the debate.

[Barbara]

Oh my goodness ! What a rogue - or WORSE !

This is just unethical of Jay Dyer !

Have some of these starstruck fans seen the light and left his "cult" ?

I have so many questions

What about Fr Ananias ? How long as he been under so to speak "bishop" jay dyer ?! I remember seeing mention of Fr Ananias, but could NOT figure out in what jurisdiction he is/was at the time.

Do you happen to know the answer, either of you ?

I got confused about that group of Rachel Wilson, Andrew Wilson and Fr Ananias. How are they associated - if they ARE ?
Are they all Jay Dyer products essentially ?

This is REALLY IMPORTANT to know who and what this character is

I am SO GLAD that there is ONE place on the internet which can coolly expose him.

He obviously has every other avenue for that already sealed off !
Thank you BOTH for the valuable information and assessments.

Well what CAN we do to correct the false notion that Fr Joseph is a coward to debate Jay Dyer [Jay in Dire Straits !] ?
And is there ANY avenue to expose Jay Dyer effectively - such as creating Youtube videos explaining all this in a rational way ?

Yes Taylor Marshall seems completely fair, calm. I only saw a little bit of one his videos, but he does come across as MATURE.

Where Jay Direly In Need of De-demonization sounds from all you both say, like a screaming infant. Not a good recommendation for people wanting to inquire into Orthodoxy !

Also, are there other well-known World Orthodox personalities who are also Jay's proteges ?

Thanks for your time explaining all this !!!

[Barbara]

Nektarios Lopez stated that Jay Dyer is desperate for air time

Could THIS be the underlying PROBLEM with his behavior toward True Orthodox ?

Like a movie star always pining to be cast in the NEXT movie, no matter how many films in which they already had played roles*, Jay is in Dire Need of consistent attention on himself ?? But it HAS to be from 'easy to defeat' sources or he feels he won't be collecting rounds of applause from his fans ?

Are you both saying in essence that Jay is worse than a narcissist. More like a sociopath who would attack other people merely to stop them from making Jay look bad ? The insults he hands out it sounds like deliberately to deprecate other people are a KEY to seeing sociopathic traits in him.

His work should be avoided ! A dangerous person to be around, even on the internet.

I did look at his twitter but it was absolutely nothing at all, just jabbering, it looked like.

*There WAS announcement of his book on Hollywood, speaking of movie star roles !

WHEN will he start using an Orthodox name, too ?!
Whoever takes over the Rocor-MP Mid-West Diocese needs to rein him in and set rules for him !