Hurrah!!! GEORGIAN CHURCH DEFEATS vatican CONCORDAT!!!

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Bogatyr
Member
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat 15 November 2003 6:22 pm

Hurrah!!! GEORGIAN CHURCH DEFEATS vatican CONCORDAT!!!

Post by Bogatyr »

:mrgreen: :lol: :D If only they had a jurisdiction in America!
Orthodoxia I Thanatos!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovksy
PS There are NO Georgian uniates!!!
PPS This is whom ROCOR should be seeking rapproachment with!

http://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimateb ... 1;t=001327

FROM CATHOLIC WORLD REPORT
TREATY EFFORT COLLAPSES (ORTHODOX CHURCH RETAINS MONOP0LY)

The Catholic Church failed in a bid to become the second religious community to gain legal status in the former Soviet Republic of Georgia, when the government abruptly cancelled plans to sign an agreement with the Vatican.

Archbishop Jean-Louis Tauran had arrived in Tbilisi for the signing ceremony, which had been set for Sept 19th. The event was seen by the Vatican as the crowning product of months of careful diplomatic preparation. But the government withdrew from the proposed agreement at the last minute, under heavy pressure from Orthodox leaders.

Catholic officials stressed that the Church needs the agreement. "For the past decade they kept saying a law on religion would be adopted which would grant recognition, but it never happened," a Catholic official in Tbilisi told the news-service. "That was the reason for the agreement."

With the failure to conclude the treaty - which would have given the Catholic Church and its 50,000 faithful legal status in Georgia - the Georgian Orthodox Church remained the only religious community in the country with formal legal status. In his weekly radio interview on Sept 22nd, President Eduard Skevardnadze expressed his regret that the agreement had not been signed, and promised a religion law would be adopted to regulate the legal status of all faiths in the country.

The Georgian government's refusal to sign the agreement came after a sustained campaign by the Orthodox, which included noisy demonstrations outside the nunciature in Tbilisi and at the airport as Archbishop Tauran flew in on Sept 18th. "For Orthodox Georgia, the signing of an inter-state agreement with the Vatican cannot be
desirable," Patriarch Ilya, the head of the Georgian Orthodox Church, told a presss
conference on Sept 18th. He said he had written President Shevardnadze warning him not to allow the signing to go ahead.

The following day, some 2,000 students waving placards joined demonstrators outside parliament in central Tbilisi, where Orthodox Bishop Zenon of Mnamisis told the protestors that the agreement would have allowed the Vatican to increase its influence in Georgia. State Minister Djorbenadze also addressed the crowd,
telling them that President Shevardnadze, who was gone to Ukraine, had ordered the signing to be cancelled.

On Sept 20th, Bishop Zenon denied the protest had been organized by the Orthodox leadership, calling such claims "immoral". However, one Tbilisi-based Orthodox priest rejected Bishop Zenon's claims. Father Basile Kobakhidze said, "They told them our Church is in danger and that the Catholics want to destroy the Orthodox
belief." He particularly criticized Bishop Zenon's role. "He made fascist statements
saying that they should drive the Catholics out of Georgia! He was the main organizer of the demonstrations."

The Georgian government's sudden about-face provoked a sharp critical statement from Archbishop Tauran on Sept 20th. "It is mainly the Catholic community in this country that will suffer this failed pledge, a community which continues to be deprived of every juridical guarantee, and with whom we express our solidarity. In addition, the Holy See delegation felt gravely hurt by the conduct of the Georgian
Orthodox Church which has spread news that does not correspond to the truth."

END

Comment: Thought folks might find this of interest, altho it affects only the Roman Catholics, since our brothers and sisters of the Byzantine Georgian Catholic Church have no presence in Georgia.

mwoerl

no religious freedom . . . a cause for joy?

Post by mwoerl »

i am sorry, i do not find countries that do not permit freedom of religion a cause for celebration. they can easily do it to the orthodox elsewhere, or in russia again one day . . .

mwoerl

Bogatyr
Member
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat 15 November 2003 6:22 pm

Denial Of Proselytism

Post by Bogatyr »

This isn't a denial of freedom of religion, but rather an affirmation of an Orthodox state to pursue an Orthodox society and keep its people free of latin error.
Orthodoxia I Thanatos!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky

mwoerl

freedom of religion

Post by mwoerl »

call it what you like . . . i know what it is
mwoerl

Bogatyr
Member
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat 15 November 2003 6:22 pm

Empowere unia?

Post by Bogatyr »

So you would prefer to empower unia?! I see why ROCOR is headed where it is! I wonder if rome would give you such a voice to witness Orthodoxy in its countries and regions.
Orthodoxia I Thanatos!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky

mwoerl

would rome allow witness to orthodoxy?

Post by mwoerl »

bogatyr,

is there not (or wasn't there) a diocese with a bishop of the cyprianites in italy? doesn't rocor have churches in italy? uh-where is the headqurters of the "milan synod"? gee-aint that in italy? doesn't the mp have churches in italy? isnt italy one of rome's "countries and regions"? what other of rome's "countries and regions" have orthodox churches within their borders? poland? france? spain?


of course if any of these countries treated orthodoxy as you obviously wish heterodox religions to be treated in georgia and russia, we could hear you screaming all the way in tbilisi! yet, the orthodox should do it, eh? perhaps you agree with the goergian metropolitan atanase, who stated that jehovah's witnesses in georgia should "be shot"! sound orthodox teaching there, eh! and you want to "get together" with people of that sort? why wouldn't that surprise me?

i simply refuse to see how expecting that governments allow the basic human right of freedom of religion is "empowering unia." and believe me, i have absolutely no influence whatsoever on "where rocor is heading"!

that you would think i WOULD be even a small part of the cause of "where rocor is heading" is as absolutely ridiculous as the espousal of hateful, obscurantist, fascist (same thing as stalinist, eh?) and totalitarian "political" positions that deny basic human rights to those we do not like, based, of course, on such matters as reace, creed and color.

believe me, the pope LOVES orthodox people who espouse such -uh- "enlightened" positions! just gets him more publicity! talk about "empowering unia"!!

mwoerl

Bogatyr
Member
Posts: 150
Joined: Sat 15 November 2003 6:22 pm

Unia

Post by Bogatyr »

So a papal concordat is something to welcome and an espousal of the peoples' will?! Who is preventing people from being uniates in Georgia?! The fact of the matter is after 80 years of COERCED secularization, your "enlightened" perspective now wishes to seed an orthodox country with heretical money and set up a structure where heretofore it NEVER existed and purchase souls. Some countries follow a DIFFERENT social construct where they choose to insure that Orthodoxy is the religious expression their nation espouses. No one is hindering Georgians from becoming heterodox. What is being hindered is foreign missions.
Lastly, let rocor, the Synod in Resistance, Milan, etc. HAVE THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS rome does or even a fraction of the political power and see if that is the reality that endures. The mp had an italian mission WHICH IT ABOLISHED due to papal, ecumenical pressures. The ep had one as well. IT TOO IS LONG GONE FOR THE SAME REASONS. That is the papal "enlightenment" you speak about. Use structures and their innate greed and political weaknesses to reassert yourself. Don't kid yourself: rome is very much a spiritual despotism which will not share its power with anyone. The fact of the matter is, if they were som enlightened, WOULDN'T THEY ABOLISH unia? After all, it was coerced upon people and REPRESENTS proselytism of the Orthodox?
Orthodoxia I Thanatos!
Rostislav Mikhailovich Malleev-Pokrovsky

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