Hawaiin Iveron Icon

[NektariosLopez]

Yesterday was the feast day of the appearance of the Hawaiin Iveron icon of the Theotokos according to ROCOR's calendar. How is this icon viewed and has anyone within TO, of some authority whether bishop, priest or perhaps holy person, made any commentary about this specific instance since this happened in the same year as the union. Some from ROCOR have told me that this seems like an an affirmation or blessing from the Theotokos of remaining with them even if the "MP isnt the best" but it made me wonder, especially since learning about that incorruption isn't always a sign of sanctification, if it's a sign of warning the faithful? There's also icons that "weep" and I recall that some view this miracle as a warning as well so its not out of the scope of possibility.

Thoughts? It simply peaked my curiosity especially since I have a paper copy and some of the myrrh soaked cotton from it, from when I was in ROCOR and saw it listed on the calendar.

Also let me know if this isn't the appropriate sub to post.

[SavaBeljovic]

Well the Hawaii Iveron icon started streaming myrrh 10 years to the day of St. Joseph's martyrdom... Which also happened to be the same day the "Anschluss" as I like to call it was finalized.

I think it's more about the former than the latter. An issue a lot of people -- especially converts in the West -- have is this idea that a miracle has to be proof of something. A miracle can simply be God's mercy, not proof the MP has grace.

I like one thing Fr. Sergius at the St. John monastery in Cobieskill told me, "an icon streaming myrrh or healing people is a relatively minor thing compared to the greatest and most reliable miracle of all -- that at every Divine Liturgy, the Holy Spirit comes down and we can partake of the actual Body and Blood of our Lord".

The MP can have all the weeping icons (universally considered to be a bad sign) and myrrh streaming icons they want, but they do not have a real Eucharist. Roman Catholics have miracle working icons, in fact, I venerated one and I do legitimately think it granted me healing. But I also know they are outside the Church, and their Eucharist isn't real.

[SavaBeljovic]

My priest, Fr. Mark Templet, has actually been to Hawaii and venerated the icon. We have myrrh from the icon in our Church.

My Vladyka ran into the man who has the icon, young guy. Now he's running around acting like he's St. Joseph, giving people spiritual advice and being a godparent to dozens of children.

St. Joseph had spiritual gifts, but my Vladyka's impression of the owner of the Hawaii icon is that he isn't anything like St. Joseph.

Just some scattered notes to add

[Suaidan]

I wasn't aware St Joseph was giving lots of advice either. Interesting take, Sabbas!

[SavaBeljovic]

I wasn't aware St Joseph was giving lots of advice either. Interesting take, Sabbas!

He did, and maybe that was improper. He also played monk for many years before he got secretly tonsured, but still travelled and lived in the world.

Some people didn't like St. Joseph because of this, and it was highly abnormal, but God gave him martyrdom. I think that's the most important thing. The icon didn't make St. Joseph Holy, his spiritual life and eventual Martyrdom did.

[Barbara]

Are you saying that Brother Joseph - I don't see him as a saint at ALL, no offense to anybody here ! - was not a very deep monk, just superficial, when you say that he was "playing monk" ?
Or what did you mean by that ?
What WAS the story of how he received the tonsure, if you have heard about that aspect ? Usually in accounts of Brother Jose's life, it's mentioned fast, with no real details given.

[Suaidan]

Are you saying that Brother Joseph - I don't see him as a saint at ALL, no offense to anybody here ! - was not a very deep monk, just superficial, when you say that he was "playing monk" ?
Or what did you mean by that ?
What WAS the story of how he received the tonsure, if you have heard about that aspect ? Usually in accounts of Brother Jose's life, it's mentioned fast, with no real details given.

Well he was martyred in Greece by New Calendarists who wanted the icon, so as far as I am concerned he's in the calendar of Saints