The True Religion Of The Ukrainian People Is unia?!

[Bogatyr]

This is amazingly blatent. Give a read to the new march of unia while the mp and putin sign concordats with rome and ROCOR makes penance for opposing it!

ORTHODOXIA I THANATOS!
R M Malleev-Pokrovsky
PS I would bet "incognetus" is none other than Fr. Stefan Pawlenko.
http://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimateb ... 1;t=001326

Cardinal Lubomyr Husar, the Major Archbishop of the Ukrainian Catholic Church, announced that he is moving his archepiscopal see from Lviv to Kiev within the next few weeks. If you think that's a minor story-- just relocating the headquarters-- you are very much mistaken. This move could have enormous implications for the future of ecumenical relations: both for the Eastern churches in union with Rome, and for the Vatican's efforts to draw closer to the Russian Orthodox Church.

The Ukrainian Catholic Church, you see, is the largest of all the Byzantine-rite churches in full union with the Holy See. Brutally persecuted during the Stalin era, the Byzantine Church re-emerged with remarkable vigor after the fall of Communism, and soon the Russian Orthodox Church, which views itself as a sponsor of the neighboring Ukrainian Orthodox, was complaining about the muscular new Catholic presence. (To complicate matters, the Ukrainian Orthodox Church is split into three factions, fighting among themselves.) The Ukrainian Catholic hierarchy is not apologizing for the growth of their Church. On the contrary, by moving to Kiev (the nation's capital), they are plunging into the heart of what has been historically Orthodox territory, and staking a claim to represent the true religious heritage of the Ukrainian people.

Moscow won't swallow that claim easily. And the Ukrainian Catholic leadership is also causing a good deal of nervousness at the Vatican, where many prelates are doing their best to ease the current tensions that separate Rome from Moscow.

And that's still not the whole story. For generations, Ukrainian Catholics have asked the Vatican to recognize their Church as a patriarchate-- like the patriarchates of several other smaller Eastern-rite churches: Maronite,
Melkite, Chaldean, etc. Cardinal Husar raised the stakes a bit in his most recent statement, asserting that the Ukrainian Church is a patriarchate, and calling upon the Vatican "to recognize this historical reality."

As you can see it's a fascinating story, loaded with ecumenical significance. Having been faithful to their ties with the Catholic Church--
and endured savage persecution for it-- Ukrainian Catholics now want the Vatican to show faith in them. That's not an unreasonable request. But any
show of faith could carry a high cost, in terms of angry reactions from Moscow. Watching this story, one is reminded that the Eastern Catholic
churches often don't trust Rome. And the Orthodox churches, keenly aware of that mistrust, are reluctant to draw closer to Holy See. It's a Catch-22 situation: If the Vatican gives its full backing to the Eastern Catholic churches, the Orthodox will be offended. But if the Vatican doesn't fully support the Byzantine Catholics, the Orthodox will fear that Rome doesn't respect the Eastern Christian tradition.

[Makis]

Dear Bogatyr,

I just read your post, and here it is: my firts reply! (I just signed in)

Maybe we should just look at it this way: let the papist (Byzantine Rite or Latin Rite) do what they want. It's their bussiness, not ours.
When, let's say, the lutherans would do a thing like that, nobody of us would have taken notice.
So why is it different with the papists?
In my opinion, the one is just as heretical as the other!

Only one thing I didn't understand from the article: "But if the Vatican doesn't fully support the Byzantine Catholics, the Orthodox will fear that Rome doesn't respect the Eastern Christian tradition".

Sorry, perhaps I'm a little slow, but I miss the connection.

In Christ,

Makis

[Bogatyr]

This was a region that was historically preyed upon by unia and its Orthodoxy assaulted by it. It is more of an enemy than any protestant sectarian. Moreover, KIEV is the cradle of Russian civilization and the mother of Russian Orthodoxy. This is a uniate attempt to subvert that and it behooves all Russian Orthodox Christians to take notice. And that last reference is to apostate "world orthodoxy", whom the uniate feels is sympathetic to his position; hence, he argues, they would be more suspicious of roman overtures toward reunion because these "real orthodox in uniate eyes" would see that rome stifles the eastern tradition once it has the chance, hence would try to suppress them eventually upon reunion. They believe that once "world Orthodoxy" is gobbled up, it will be no different than unia and that it will simply be an extension of unia. It's ok you don't understand the statement as it takes the understandings of ecumenism to reason that stupid way.
ORTHODOXIA I THANATOS!
R M Malleev-Pokrovsky

[Natasha]

"...staking a claim to represent the true religious heritage of the Ukrainian people."

What's maddening about this is that it is such an obvious lie. The unia exists only because it was born from a political compromise. Kiev is the mother of Orthodox Russia.

[mwoerl]

right up this alley, so to speak, are the comments of bishop nicholas, first (and maybe only?) hierarch of the carpatho-russian church; they have a diocese in the usa under the ecumenical patriarchate.

a few years back, bishop nicholas somehow found himself in the position of addressing a gathering of ukrainian uniate bishops. he told these ukrainian uniate bishops that they were "the heirs to saints vladimir and olga." nice, huh?

mwoerl

[Makis]

Dear Bogatyr,

And that last reference is to apostate "world orthodoxy", whom the uniate feels is sympathetic to his position

I guess with "apostate "world orthodoxy"" you mean the MP, the EP etc.

Let me (as an Orthodox western European, living in Greece, and so under the jurisdiction of HB, Archbishop Christodoulos) tell you a little secret: apostate "world orthodoxy" (as you call it) is NOT sympathetic to the unia. Never was and never will be!!

In the Netherlands, where I come from, I started my "road to Orthodoxy" in a parish under the MP.
I can tell you that there was no sympathy whatsoever.
Same thing in the parishes of the "Paris Jurisdiction" and of the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

Your (hopefully not apostate, yet very sinful) brother in Christ,

Makis

p.s. which Bogatyr are you? Svjatogor or Aljosja Popovich? :mrgreen:

[Makis]

Dear mwoerl,

he told these ukrainian uniate bishops that they were "the heirs to saints vladimir and olga."

YUK!

May God have mercy on him!

In Christ,

Makis