Vesperal Divine Liturgies?

Discuss the holy Mysteries and the liturgical life of the Church such as the Hours, Vespers, Matins/Orthros, Typica, and the Divine Liturgy. All Forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


Theodora Elizabeth
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Vesperal Divine Liturgies?

Post by Theodora Elizabeth »

I've read in several places that traditionalists object to the Vesperal Divine Liturgies that the modernist parishes often hold. But I've not found much explanation of this. I'd appreciate it if you could explain the objections to this practice. My conservative Antiochian parish has them for every major feast except Pascha and the Nativity of Christ. Our priest has come right out and said it's because with everyone working, no one would be able to show up. I don't know if this is practiced much among the OCA or GOA. I do know the Leavitt St. OCA cathedral does have Divine Liturgies the mornings of feasts (where I went on Bright Monday, as I had taken the day off work).

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Theodora

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Re: Vesperal Divine Liturgies?

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Last edited by TomS on Tue 8 June 2004 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vesperal Divine Liturgies?

Post by TomS »

Theodora Elizabeth wrote:

I'd appreciate it if you could explain the objections to this practice.

Don't pay any attention to other people's objections to when you worship the Lord God. Do you think He cares WHEN you give Him praise and reverance? Do you envision Him sitting on his throne rolling his eyeas at your "innapropriately timed praise" and telling your guardian Angel that you are just a screw-up?

Orthodox Pharisees are all about PRIDE; "Only WE worship the Lord correctly!"

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Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

Well it comes down that the Typicon calls for it only at certain times and only then is it appropriate. Of course these days, everything is about ease and convenience. Christ did not come to make life easy. He came and told us to take up our crosses. These days too many people want to only make time for God when they are done working, playing and resting and are not wiling to move the unimportant (ultimately) things in life for Him.

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Post by TomS »

Nicholas wrote:

Well it comes down that the Typicon calls for it only at certain times and only then is it appropriate. Of course these days, everything is about ease and convenience. Christ did not come to make life easy. He came and told us to take up our crosses. These days too many people want to only make time for God when they are done working, playing and resting and are not wiling to move the unimportant (ultimately) things in life for Him.

Or might it have been that the time rule was initially set for that time because that time of day was more convenient for the people of that period in history?

When Jesus responded to the Woman at the Well, he was saying that worshiping God was not supposed to be so HARD and the specifics of time and location were NOT what was important.

I mean, really. We have to stop taking everything that was done in the past and saying that EVERYTHING related to it MUST be conformed to.

I can AGREE with you that the Hours of Prayer, the Verspers service, etc... WERE INSPIRED by the Holy Spirit.

But maybe the Holy Spirit said to them "The Lord God should be worshiped every day" and then left it up to MAN to determine what those times should be. And those times were more than likely set up to enable the faithful to participate as much as possible.

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Post by Theodora Elizabeth »

Tom ~

Not trying to be an Orthodox "Pharisee." I was asking out of simple curiousity.

Theodora Elizabeth

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Post by OrthodoxyOrDeath »

It is a strange thing how innovations are turned into accussations against tradition without even saying a word. How does this happen??

Christ is the Head of the Church and it is His Typicon, not ours. Man never ceases in his attempts to re-create Christs Church in his own image, but these are just inventions which lead men further and further away from Christ.

Dostoyevsky: "You came and taught us a Christianity which is inhuman and hard", says the Inquisitor to Christ, "and we’ve labored for so many centuries now to make it a human religion. And now that we’ve succeeded, you’ve come to spoil our efforts of so many centuries? But you won’t accomplish it. Tomorrow I shall order them to burn you as a heretic".

If new-calendarists wish to change their services to make it more convenient and easy, which they have been doing now for a long time, I not only will not say anything, I expect that sooner or later they will succeed in changing everything (like the Latins). Indeed, the salt shall loose it savor whereever there is not the Grace of God. What I object to is any claim that this is the Orthodox way, because even now, after many hundreds of years, we are still having to defend simple things like levened bread. They can call us "Pharisees" and whatever else, but in the end we will still have all the treasures of the Church.

And I am not directing this at you Tom, you are more of a commentator (with some appropriate comments too) than a prosecutor of this. ;)

Last edited by OrthodoxyOrDeath on Tue 8 June 2004 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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