I was just wondering how you folks, who are converts especially, deal with Western "holidays" and all the pre-Western Christmas parties that fall during fasts? I'm thinking mainly of those of us who have families that are non-Orthodox.
I'm especially thinking about Thankgiving, since I might be going to visit non-Orthodox friends. And then there's all the office feasting, drunken office party (which I've avoided the past two years), etc....
Thanks,
Theodora Elizabeth
"There and thenceforth you were severed from the world; how much more from the ordinary course of worldly life and all its affairs! Nor let this separation from the world alarm you; for if we reflect that the world is more really the prison, we shall see that you have gone out of a prison rather than into one. The world has the greater darkness, blinding men's hearts. The world imposes the more grievous fetters, binding men's very souls. The world breathes out the worst impurities-human lusts. The world contains the larger number of criminals, even the whole human race. Then, last of all, it awaits the judgment, not of the proconsul, but of God. Wherefore, O blessed, you may regard yourselves as having been translated from a prison to, we may say, a place of safety. It is full of darkness, but ye yourselves are light; it has bonds, but God has made you free. Unpleasant exhalations are there, but ye are an odour of sweetness. The judge is daily looked for, but ye shall judge the judges themselves. Sadness may be there for him who sighs for the world's enjoyments. The Christian outside the prison has renounced the world, but in the prison he has renounced a prison too. It is of no consequence where you are in the world-you who are not of it. And if you have lost some of life's sweets, it is the way of business to suffer present loss, that after gains may be the larger. Thus far I say nothing of the rewards to which God invites the martyrs. Meanwhile let us compare the life of the world and of the prison, and see if the spirit does not gain more in the prison than the flesh loses. Nay, by the care of the Church and the love of the brethren,4 even the flesh does not lose there what is for its good, while the spirit obtains besides important advantages. You have no occasion to look on strange gods, you do not run against their images; you have no part in heathen holidays, even by mere bodily mingling in them; you are not annoyed by the foul fumes of idolatrous solemnities; you are not pained by the noise of the public shows, nor by the atrocity or madness or immodesty of their celebrants; your eyes do not fall on stews and brothels; you are free from causes of offence, from temptations, from unholy reminiscences; you are free now from persecution too. The prison does the same service for the Christian which the desert did for the prophet. Our Lord Himself spent much of His time in seclusion, that He might have greater liberty to pray, that He might be quit of the world. It was in a mountain solitude, too, He showed His glory to the disciples. Let us drop the name of prison; let us call it a place of retirement. Though the body is shut in, though the flesh is confined, all things are open to the spirit. In spirit, then, roam abroad; in spirit walk about, not setting before you shady paths or long colonnades, but the way which leads to God. As often as in spirit your footsteps are there, so often you will not be in bonds. The leg does not feel the chain when the mind is in the heavens. The mind compasses the whole man about, and whither it wills it carries him. But where thy heart shall be, there shall be thy treasure.5 Be there our heart, then, where we would have our treasure." -- Tertullian
What a gem of a qoute. I love Tertullians Orthodox writings.
Theodora, I has been my experience that it is not easy at first to fast on Thanksgiving (when it is a fast day), or to separate yourself from all the other non-Orthodox "feasts". But after awhile, not only you will get used to it, other people will expect it, and before long, you'll not know any other way.
I have three children, and on the 4th of July (and other such holidays whether it be a fast or not) we do something very simple, usually at home, that has nothing to do with the holiday. Then perhaps the next day we'll do something more fun. But essentially I think it is important that they know it is OK not to go along with what the world is doing. After all, if they are going to be saved, they will have to learn how to do this sooner or later, better sooner. It will be soon enough I suppose that they will want to go off with their friends and light fireworks, but hopefully the seeds that have been planted will grow someday.
It is as difficult to live piously ourselves as it is to raise pious Orthodox children.
The Fathers created fasts and feasts based on their culture. I think that if Orthodoxy is to take hold, we have to hold up our American holidays as important and Godly. That includes Thanksgiving and 4th July primarily. I think it is completely reasonable to issue a laxing of a fast on these days. Call me a modernist but so what. These holidays mean something to Americans and are part of our culture. And culture should never be made to conflict with Orthodoxy unless it goes against the faith (such as cannibalism or something extreme like that).
anastasios
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anastasios wrote:I think it is completely reasonable to issue a laxing of a fast on these days. Call me a modernist but so what. These holidays mean something to Americans and are part of our culture. And culture should never be made to conflict with Orthodoxy unless it goes against the faith (such as cannibalism or something extreme like that).
[applying both palms of hands to mouth-- blowing -- big obnoxious fart sound] 
I'm not sure what Savva24 meant by that but I would like to add a few comments.
Thanksgiving is probably the most Christian of holidays celebrated in the USA at this time. At Thanksgiving--unlike Western Christmas--we actually give thanks to God and praise him publicly, and acknowledge what He has done for us.
I know that OOD was not saying "don't celebrate it at all" but I think our culture needs to be taken into account. The Russians took Aleut culture and needs into account and modified the fasts for them. I am not saying cut out the fast, I am saying give a mitigation for one day. And if it makes that big of a difference, one could make up for the "missed" day some other day.
Disclaimer: Many older posts were made before my baptism and thus may not reflect an Orthodox point of view.
Please do not message me with questions about the forum or moderation requests. Jonathan Gress (jgress) will be able to assist you.
Please note that I do not subscribe to "Old Calendar Ecumenism" and believe that only the Synod of Archbishop Kallinikos is the canonical GOC of Greece. I do believe, however, that we can break down barriers and misunderstandings through prayer and discussion on forums such as this one.
We give thanks to Christ every day for all of His countless blessings. What reason then is there to break the holy fast leading up to His Nativity and feast with a society that never stops feasting?
I cannot think of a single reason one would do this except for lack of self-control, which is precisely why we fast – to tame our passions. I visit relatives on Thanksgiving, but we don’t break any fasts; our relatives think my wife is the worst cook!
I agree with OOD. I'm only 17, but my parents never loosened the fast for me. I was taught that GOd comes before all things, thus, we should make our culture fit God and the Holy Fathers, not make Him Who is eternal fit our times and "culture." Culture is defined as either 1.) "THe training and refining of the mind, emotions, manners, taste, etc. or 2.) "The concepts, habits, skills, arts, instruments, institutions, etc of a given people in a given period." Therefore, do we not control the culture in which we immerse ourselves? Eating meats and rich things has no bearing on how thankful we are to God for all our blessings. Yes, we do give thanks to God daily for all that He has done for us, but on THanksgiving, if one desires more thanks to be made, should one not go to church and pray with tears? How is filling one's belly and loosening the mind with drink giving thanks? Is glutteny not a sin? Therefore, one might say that on Thanksgiving, if anything, one should keep the fast all the more faithfully, to offer unto Him what is His. If we relax the Faith in the name of a culture which we are supposed to dictate, what will happen in the Last Days? FOr then, the culture will be the worshipping of the Beast, and the extermination of Christians and Godly values. What then, shall we do? Shall we wave away the very Faith? No, we must hold fast to what is most Precious, against them "which are able to kill the body but are not able to kill the soul." It is difficult, but the Lord warns us of this saying: "If the world hate you, know ye that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love its own: but because I have chosen ou out of the world, the world hateth you." (John 15:18) Endure unto the end, and there shall be reward in heaven.