GOC

[Apologist]

Can I ask a question? Does ROCOR, recognize a "Church" of Greek Schismatics called ΓΟΧ or GOC (Genuine Orthodox Christians), also known as "Matthewites"??? Does it recognize the Archidiocese of Greece (Archibishop Christodoulos), that has the New Calendar, and is recognized by MT. ATHOS? Does it recognize the rest of the canonical Churches (Serbian Patriarchate, Ecumenical P., Russian P., Antiochian P etc)? What did St. John Maximovich say???

[尼古拉前执事]

Does it recognize the rest of the canonical Churches (Serbian Patriarchate, Ecumenical P., Russian P., Antiochian P etc)?

What is your definition of 'canonical'?

[Apologist]

Does it recognize the rest of the canonical Churches (Serbian Patriarchate, Ecumenical P., Russian P., Antiochian P etc)?

What is your definition of 'canonical'?

Do you consider those Churches I mentioned canonical? I have read that Serbia and Antioch have CHURCHES of St. John Maximovich! This means they recognize ROCOR?

[尼古拉前执事]

If by canonical you me followers of the canons, then I would say no. With the Antiochian Patriarchate in communion with the Monophysites who are condemned heretics by the canons, I cannot see how anyone can call them 'canonical'.

[romiosini]

Can I ask a question? Does ROCOR, recognize a "Church" of Greek Schismatics called ΓΟΧ or GOC (Genuine Orthodox Christians), also known as "Matthewites"??? Does it recognize the Archidiocese of Greece (Archibishop Christodoulos), that has the New Calendar, and is recognized by MT. ATHOS? Does it recognize the rest of the canonical Churches (Serbian Patriarchate, Ecumenical P., Russian P., Antiochian P etc)? What did St. John Maximovich say???

Well Apologist, I sure can answer most of your questions! ROCOR recognizes only the synod of Metropolitan Archbishop Cyprian of Fili and Oropos. (Metropolitan Cyprian broke away from his Synod (Archbishop Chrysostom Kioussis of the GOC) because he taught that the Orthodox within World Orthodoxy (Non extremist Orthodoxy) can be saved and still has grace in to those who desire it.) The Matthewites were broken away from the very beginning with the Auxentites and Florinites (Of Metropolitan Chrysostom of Florina). The ROCOR doesn't aknowledge the State Church of Greece (The Church of Archbishop Christodoulus) of the New Calendar, but aknowledges Mount Athos and the Jerusalem/Serbian Patriarchates, but not the Russian,Antiochian,Ecumenical though. Otherwords, ROCOR was always canonical and was actually aknowledged by the Ecumenical Patriarchate after it was created by Saint Tikhon of Russia. Now regarding what Nicholas said, it is true. Not many don't obey the canons. But that doesn't mean that synods like ROCOR, or ROCIE, ROAC, GOC (Of Chrysostom Kioussis) or Synod in Resistance (Of Metropolitan Cyprian), and God knows how many else are any better. I could tell you with proof (which I prefer keeping for myself) that the GOC here in America are quite philo-ecumenist. (I have seen a GOC commune a New Calendarist (Which I am too) without asking from where he was.) Now then? Who is canonical? As if as no one hasn't done that before eh?
Well, Ecumenism always existed even before the Fanatism and the explosion of it as a heresy. 50 years before the infamous Meletius Metaxakis of Crete, still existed bishops who communed Catholics or Protestants or Monophysite. But yet, those bishops weren't condemned as they are now. At let me say, that Saint Tikhon's time too existed ecumenism in Russia (those who would've been the followers of Lenin and Stalin) and worldwide (with Archbishops of Cyprus, Greece, Serbia or the Ecumenical Patriarchates). So regarding Saint John Maximovitch, he'd rather cared for his salvation (as it is proven that he is saved and is now a Saint for us) then waste his time accusing A or condeming B. There is no living statement that he says that the Moscow Patriarchate is condemned or Graceless... Anyways, to keep stories short (even though they aren't), no one today is as Genuine or True as Saint John Maximovitch was.

[gphadraig]

As I have penned elsewhere, there appear to be the Uncanonical canonicals, and the Canonically uncanonical. All too often the canons are used as a weapon against others and not a measure against ourselves. Yes, even from the beginning one (local) church would write to another expressing concern or stronger regarding departures from that which should be; but the canons should not simply be weapons to be used against those who may challenge but which we overlook either in relation to ourselves or those we feel 'comfortable' with.

Additionally, I sense and wonder whether others do a considerable amount of 'subjectivity' when questions relating to the standing or otherwise are raised about this or that 'jurisdiction' or (local) church.

A stray thought, which has always stayed with me. I was visiting sites in Greece associated with St Nectarios of Pentapolis and went to the "convent' of the Alexandrian Patriachate. My friends introduced me, emphasing my strict traditional church calendar background among others things. My reception got even friendlier, if that was possible. And then I was shown an icon of the miraclous appearance of a byzantine cross over a Church calendar church in 1924. The prominence of such an icon in this reported 'hotbed' of ecumenism and the warmth of my reception has stayed with me since.

[Anastasios]

ROCOR recognizes the GOC of Archbishop Chrysostomos II of Athens as well. When Metropolitan Laurus was installed in 2001, Metropolitan Pavlos and Bishop Christodoulos arrived with relics and were escorted by deacons into the altar with Metropolitan Laurus.

The "Matthewite" GOC is a different story. They are not recognized by ROCOR but their faithful can still be communed in ROCOR (although they might not return the favor).

Anastasios