When Does Nationalism Become Un-Orthodox?

Patristic theology, and traditional teachings of Orthodoxy from the Church fathers of apostolic times to the present. All forum Rules apply. No polemics. No heated discussions. No name-calling.


Pravoslavnik
Sr Member
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed 17 January 2007 9:34 pm
Jurisdiction: ROCOR- A

When Does Nationalism Become Un-Orthodox?

Post by Pravoslavnik »

As an American convert in the ROCOR during the past decade, I have found myself and my family now displaced from the ROCOR-MP parish in our city. In fact, we currently have no Orthodox parish in our metropolitan area which is not in communion with the Moscow Patriarchate, or using the Old Calendar (other than our former ROCOR-MP parish, which has become, in effect, a parish run by and for recent Soviet emigres.) It has been a difficult year for us, and has caused me to think a great deal about the history of the Church. Surely, the Orthodox Church has long been organized along ethnic and national lines--like human societies themselves--with traditional Patriarchates and autocephalous branches in various national centers; Israel, Egypt, Syria, Greece, Rome, etc.

Code: Select all

     On the other hand, the Church has always been essentially [i]Catholic[/i] as well--universal.  The Lord instructed the Holy Apostles to "make disciples of all nations," and the Apostle Paul reminded those in the early Church that "there is neither Jew nor Greek, for all are one in Christ."  Hence, there has been an historic tension between the natural organization of the Orthodox Church along essentially ethnic and nationalistic  lines--Greek, Russian, etc.--and the ideal of [i]Catholicity[/i].  This question of the significance of nationalism within the Orthodox Church seems especially crucial in modern America, a nation of immigrants from virtually all nations and ethnic groups.  The Greek Orthodox Church in America, in my view, has always been very intimately focused on serving the ethnic Greek immigrant community, and the ROCOR, at least in our city, now seems similarly focused on serving the needs of ethnic Russian immigrants, especially recent Soviet emigres.  I know, as well, that many of the ancient monasteries on Mount Athos have, historically, focused on serving particular ethnic groups--e.g., Chilander has been mainly Serbian, and St. Panteleimon's, mainly Russian.

    I do not pretend to understand these mysteries of Orthodox history, nor do I presume to judge anyone within the Church.  My question for the clergy and laity on this board is simply the following:  [i][b]When does nationalism become Un-Orthodox?[/i][/b]  Webster's Collegiate Dictionary defines "nationalism" as "[i]a sense of national consciousness raising or exalting one nation above all others and placing emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups."[/i]   It would be difficult, in my opinion, to find a more precise description of the attitudes and behavior of the current hierarchs of the ROCOR-Laurus and the Moscow Patriarchate, but are they, ipso facto, Un-Orthodox?  I am somewhat familiar with the Orthodox concept of "phyletism" as a heresy--condemned by a fairly recent Council of the Church--but when does natural segregation of ethnic, Orthodox communities become phyletistic, or Un-Orthodox?  I would appreciate hearing from those who have knowledge of these theological issues.
Last edited by Pravoslavnik on Sun 19 August 2007 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
尼古拉前执事
Archon
Posts: 5127
Joined: Thu 24 October 2002 7:01 pm
Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Non-Phylitist
Location: United States of America
Contact:

Post by 尼古拉前执事 »

When it becomes Phyletism, which is a condemned heresy.

The Ecumenical Patriarch, Anthimus VI convened a synod in Constantinople, which also included the Greek patriarchs of Alexandria and Jerusalem (1872). The council condemned "phyletism" — the national or ethnic principle in church organization.

Synod of Constantinople (1872) and Condemnation of Phyletism

It was the Bulgarian Schism which precipitated for the part of the Church as to the precise role of nationalism or ethnicity (then known as phyletism) in the life of the Church. The claim of the Bulgarians that on the basis of their ethnicity they were entitled to be an autocephalous church despite the fact that at that time it did not comprise a national state (still being part of the Ottoman Empire), unlike the newly independent Balkan states, provoked the Ecumenical Patriarchate to convene a Synod at Constantinople in 1872 which was attended by the heads or representatives of all the autocephalous churches of Orthodoxy. Presided over by Patriarch Anthimus VI of Constantinople, the Synod condemned as heresy the acceptance of phyletism or ethnicity as being the decisive factor in church organization.

Conforming to that decision is a condition for Orthodox Christian unity in today's world, and remains the basic principle regarding church unity — that is, that the organization of the Church along ethnic lines in the same geographical area is a heresy.

Here is a thread on phyletism if you are interested: http://www.euphrosynoscafe.com/forum/vi ... php?t=3192

Pravoslavnik
Sr Member
Posts: 518
Joined: Wed 17 January 2007 9:34 pm
Jurisdiction: ROCOR- A

Post by Pravoslavnik »

Can it not be fairly said, then, that the Greek and Russian Orthodox (ROCOR-MP) Churches in America are now essentially phyletistic, and, hence, heretical? My sense is that the Antiochians and the OCA, in contrast, have opened their doors to all Orthodox Christians, regardless of ethnicity or nationality--i.e., they are not organized and essentially focused on serving one particular ethnic or national group, to the exclusion of others. At the very least, it appears that the OCA and the Antiochians are not guilty of the heresy of phyletism. On the other hand, they are using the New Calendar and sitting in pews. This question is more than academic to me, because my family and I are trying to make a decision about which administrative "division" of the Orthodox Church to attend in our metropolitan area. Who, for example, is the true Orthodox "bishop" of our polis?

User avatar
spiridon
Member
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon 12 September 2005 9:07 pm
Location: West Coast
Contact:

Post by spiridon »

What part of the world are you living in ? and maybe we can suggest where to look and ask questions....
We can read many things on the internet, but until we move and physically and personally visit and ask questions, we might not get the whole picture...

First, and Last, and Always
in CHRIST

User avatar
Грешник
Sr Member
Posts: 655
Joined: Tue 30 September 2003 11:20 am

Post by Грешник »

Oh no pews! We are ALL GOING TO HELL!

:mrgreen:

User avatar
spiridon
Member
Posts: 336
Joined: Mon 12 September 2005 9:07 pm
Location: West Coast
Contact:

Post by spiridon »

its a good thing none of the brain surgeons that condemened pews, forgot to rememebr the Central heat and Air systems blowing to keep them nice and cool or hot.
or better yet, the times that they start Services as opposed to times that Jerusalem and the east are celebrating divine services...

First, and Last, and Always
in CHRIST

User avatar
Грешник
Sr Member
Posts: 655
Joined: Tue 30 September 2003 11:20 am

Post by Грешник »

I know! Isn't that thoughtful of them? I know my pregnant wife appreciates it since she cant stand for the entire service and its good that she does not get too hot or cold with the baby and all. I am thankful. :P

Post Reply